vg10 and 13c26/FC61 with 9-12 degree edge?

[Dr Rez]

So I am looking at 2 gyuto chef knives that are pretty similar. One is vg10 hrc 60 and the other is FC61/13c26 at hrc 61. Both are ffg and I will most likely convex the edge.

So my question is this...are these very low edge angles on either steel going to be very fragile? I assume the fc61/13c26 would be slightly better at this thin of an edge.

Also how does 13c26/FC61 do at 61 hrc regarding edge retention and toughness in comparison to the vg10 at 61hrc? I know this is impossible to know exactly so I am just looking for a rough answer!





ps: Why does Sandvik have 2 steels with the exact same chemistry under 2 names?

 

[knarfeng]

Probably best asked in the Maintenance and Tinkering forum where the folks who experiment with sharpening angles hang out, and I will move this thread there. Look up some old posts from member @thombrogan He used to experiment with really low angles and post about his experiences. Writes well, too. Worth reading.

But, IIRC from reading a number of threads over the years, melt alloys containing carbides such as VG10 have stable edges down to about 10° per side, because of the carbides. Alloys that don't have carbides such as 13C26 can go thinner. But that would be without a convex edge. Low edge angles such as those are likely to be fragile. But it's going to depend on what you are cutting.

 

[Dr Rez]

Probably best asked in the Maintenance and Tinkering forum where the folks who experiment with sharpening angles hang out, and I will move this thread there. Look up some old posts from member @thombrogan He used to experiment with really low angles and post about his experiences. Writes well, too. Worth reading.

But, IIRC from reading a number of threads over the years, melt alloys containing carbides such as VG10 have stable edges down to about 10° per side, because of the carbides. Alloys that don't have carbides such as 13C26 can go thinner. But that would be without a convex edge. Low edge angles such as those are likely to be fragile. But it's going to depend on what you are cutting.

Thanks for the reply Knarf, always appreciate your posts.

Why does Miyabi in this case make a vg10 at 10 degrees per side? Seems like it would be beyond fragile for a chef knife.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I have an A.G. Russell 'Folding Cook's Knife' in VG-10, hardened to around 60 HRC. Very thin blade as new. I've thinned it quite a bit more behind the edge, probably close to that 10°/side angle mentioned. For kitchen knife uses NOT including chopping bones, etc, VG-10 is pretty strong & tough at this hardness, and I wouldn't worry about it too much.

My bigger gripe with some VG-10 blades is when they're not taken quite high enough in hardness (maybe HRC ~ 58 or lower), and consequently become prone to tenacious burring during sharpening and edge-rolling too easily in use. Even at HRC ~ 60 or so, VG-10's burrs can be impressively strong & tough, which says a lot about the steel itself; but they're easier to remove at that hardness as well, than on a knife at somewhat lower hardness, on which the burrs flip back & forth all day without breaking off.

I think I've read that VG-10 might get kind of chippy above HRC ~ 62 or so. But I believe it's 'sweet spot' for hardness lies right in the HRC 60-61 range.

 

[Dr Rez]

I have an A.G. Russell 'Folding Cook's Knife' in VG-10, hardened to around 60 HRC. Very thin blade as new. I've thinned it quite a bit more behind the edge, probably close to that 10°/side angle mentioned. For kitchen knife uses NOT including chopping bones, etc, VG-10 is pretty strong & tough at this hardness, and I wouldn't worry about it too much.

My bigger gripe with some VG-10 blades is when they're not taken quite high enough in hardness (maybe HRC ~ 58 or lower), and consequently become prone to tenacious burring during sharpening and edge-rolling too easily in use. Even at HRC ~ 60 or so, VG-10's burrs can be impressively strong & tough, which says a lot about the steel itself; but they're easier to remove at that hardness as well, than on a knife at somewhat lower hardness, on which the burrs flip back & forth all day without breaking off.

I think I've read that VG-10 might get kind of chippy above HRC ~ 62 or so. But I believe it's 'sweet spot' for hardness lies right in the HRC 60-61 range.

Thanks for reply. Yea my only worry was chipping or rolling the edge on a vg10 60 hrc gyuto that is about 10deg per side in the kitchen. I tend to rock chop some and occasionally break down chickens. Just wanted to know if that use was ok. Thanks!