VG10 vs ATS34

J

jackG

Joined
Oct 20, 2000
Messages
107
Inspecting the steel composition charts indicates that these two are pretty much the same in major components. VG has some Co and Vanadium, ATS does not.

In your experience how do the properties of edge holding, brittleness, ease of sharpening, corrosion resistance, etal, compare? Thanks, Jack
 
To make things very simplistic, I think it's easy enough just to say that ATS-34 is slightly harder and more brittle and will hold an edge a little longer. VG-10 is a little less brittle and a little tougher. I'm willing to bet that if ATS-34 is tempered to a somewhat softer state, it would be quite similar to VG-10 in performance. Don't know this, though. Take care.



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Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com
 
I would think that the heat treat would play a large part. Since the steel composition is
similar, heat treat would be a more telling
indicator of the blades performance. Most people tend to focus on the steels composition, I think heat treat is just as important. Just mt $.02.
smile.gif
 
According to one steel chart, cobalt enhances the effects of other alloying elements. But the heat treat for VG-10 is somewhat of a mystery; I suspect it has a lot to do with the qualities of the steel. Fallkniven switched over from ATS-34 to VG-10, and Spyderco uses it in some of their knives. I don't have anything n ATS-34 to compare it to, but I am very satisfied with the edge holding qualities in my F1 in VG-10; it is as close to a very good carbon steel as anything I've come across, although it takes a little longer to sharpen. I doubt whatever is being cut would notice much difference between the two.
 
I have several knives in VG-10:
- Al Mar SERE 2000
- Fallkniven S-1 and A-1
- Spyderco Calypso jr lightweight
- Spyderco Moran

I am very impressed with this steel. I really like the grain structure on these knives.

It seems to hold an edge very well and isn't too brittle.

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Dennis Bible
 
I try and never buy a stainless steel without vanadium. Vanadium not only provides some hard carbides to improve the wear characteristics of an alloy it also reduces the grain size of the overall steel. Stainless steel is often afflicted with coarse grain structure that makes it difficult to sharpen to a razor edge. Sophisticated heat treatment and the addition of vanadium are a couple ways to improve stainless. I like both ways. A little cobalt is likely to just make things better. A little tungsten is also nice.
 
I don't own anything in VG-10 (yet), so I can't give an opinion there. Also, all the knives I"ve owned in ATS-34 were never ground the way I like, but held an edge fairly well. With a thinner edge it should prove excellent. IMHO, heat treat and edge geometry are just as, if not more important than alloy.

Paul
 
I have been away the from the forum and all this groovy knife discussion for about a year. Just jumped back in. I recall previouisly seeing VG 10 on the charts and was aware Falkniven (sp) used the stuff. At that time occassional references described it as "very fine grained" lending to a very fine edge and gave it good marks.

In the interum, as noted in the posts above, Spyderco is using it in several knives and as I understand it, is planning a Wegner in VG10 at this time.

The responses to my original question suggest that the Co and Va are contributors to the fine grain, and the heat treat is a big time critical issue in how a steel behaves when the blade is complete. I need to get a text or something on heat treatment of steels inasmuch as I understand very little about the mechanics of its function. Can anyone aim me at one? Thanks for the info. Jack
 
Originally posted by jackG:

In the interum, as noted in the posts above, Spyderco is using it in several knives and as I understand it, is planning a Wegner in VG10 at this time.

Jack
Click to expand...

Oh yeah! A Wegner in VG-10 would rock!



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Dennis Bible
 
Comparing both steels in my experience I think VG10 is a bit better than ATS34. A MicroTech or Lynn Griffith knife in ATS34 is better than VG10 though.

Depends on who or what company is making it.

D2 is better than both.
smile.gif


YMMV

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~Greg Mete~
Kodiak Alaska
JKM-Chai
 
Hmmm... maybe we should have a poll ranking 8-10 blade materials in order of preference... i.e. :
1. Talonite
2. VG-10
3. M-2 (benchmade)....
ps I really have no idea which are best, hence the desire for a comprehensive list...
just an idea...
btw my vote is vg10 over ats34
 
Chief - that's a great idea. I can't remember the number of times I've gone fishing on the forum asking people who know to compare one steel against another - as in VG10 vs ATS 34. But it has always been a question of the better of two choices.

It never occured to me to just have the whole list (or at least the top 10 or so) sorted out top to bottom. Qualifiers might be added regarding usage. Dipping M2 in saltwater or using 440A to skin elk might be a misapplication.

Can anyone recommend a text which would describe the basics of heat treating and what it does chemically to the metal? Thanks Jack.
 
I have an F-2 in VG10and I really like the stuff but few knives make use of it just yet which seems a shame.
 
jackG,

Wayne Goddard's book "The Wonder Of Knifemaking" has an excellent section on the chemistry of heat treating. I bought mine at Barnes and Noble. If you don't have one near you, they will have it at their website. If all else fails, send me an e-mail with your address and I will let you borrow mine.

Take care,

Jim McCullough
 
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