VG10 vs CPMS30V

STR

STR

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I've read a bunch of good things about the S30V steel but have to admit I have not had one of my own blades in this steel yet. I should early next week when my Spyderco Native arrives. I have had several blades of VG10 and have been impressed with this steel. It is quite hard to sharpen by hand. I have found that out. Probaby due to the amount of Cobalt in the steel I would guess.

Comparing the two in the steel charts it looks like both should be pretty darn good.

Look at the difference in carbon and, molybdenum, and vanadium between these two steels though. Makes one wonder if S30V had a little Cobalt in it what it would be like then? Not that it needs it. I was impressed with a Ritter Bench Made I had in for a repair a while back in this S30V steel. Now I know why. It has as much carbon as D-2 in it.

CPM-S30V Carbon,1.45 Chrom. 14.00,Cobalt 0, Copper 0 , Manganese 0, Molybdenum 2.00, Nickel 0, Nitrongen 0.20, Phosphorus 0, Silicon O, Sulphur O, and Vanadium 4.00.


VG-10 Carbon 0.95-1.05 Chromium 14.50-15.50, Cobalt 1.30-1.50, Copper 0, Mangenese, 0.50, Molybdenum 0.90-1.20, Nickel 0, Nitrogen 0, Phosphorus 0.03 0.60, Sulphur 0, Tungstun 0, and Vanidium 0.10-0.30
 
Vanidium is the big payoff with S30V. It allows for a supper smooth (fine grained) edge.

Both great steels. but S30V was developed by Crucible specifically as a knife steel.
 
They're both great steels since they were developed specifically for knives. But I think that I favor VG-10 by a very small margin because of the difficulty I had sharpening S30V. S30V develops a stubborn burr that is hard to abrade off.
 
Based on my own limited experience with the two steels (Spydercos mostly), S30V holds an edge noticeably longer, but will rust easier. S30V is much harder to finish, so it is rarely as highly polished as Spyderco’s VG10. S30V is a powdered steel, so it is finer grained, but often coarser belts are used for beveling S30V, so it will often have the “toothier” edge.


S30V is very difficult to reprofile by hand, but if you have a good edge to start with and don’t let it get too dull, it can be maintained on a ceramic system such as the SharpMaker.


As far as the compositions go, VG10 has just enough Vanadium for grain refinement but little for forming carbides. S30V has a good amount of Vanadium for forming very hard Vanadium carbides.


I am not sure why the Cobalt is used in VG10…..




- Frank
 
With limited experience:

Benchmade's s30v(in the 921 I had) acted more like spyderco's vg-10 for edge holding. Highly polished, would cut for a long time.

Spyderco vg-10 will last about a month at work before needing a touchup, depending on what I'm cutting. About the same with s60v.

I've had a s30v lil temp since early january, still haven't sharpened it or even stropped it. Short of cutting wire with it I've used it on everything I could find. It's been more or less a permanent fixture in my pocket.

Just switched to my s60v military yesterday as we're doing renovations downstairs and I can beat on my millie without worrying(had it for over 2yrs, tip has been broken off a few times).

I find the CPM steels proform MUCH better with a rough edge, like even an 800grit AO stone, as compared to vg-10 which excells with a polished edge(as you can get with fine ceramics or a strop).

Just my opinion, I'm usually wrong. :p
 
Do you think that a higher RC on S30V makes for a better edge holding? I believe BM heats to 60, while CR is 58. My Small Sebby is very easy to sharpen.
 
Personally, I prefer VG-10 as a stain-less steel. It is definitely my favorite. S30V is right up there, and is a little tougher, but I have VG10 knives by both Spydie and Fallkniven, and they cut better than any other knife I own. I don't know why, but VG10 just seems to get sharper (and feels a bit toothier, even when I get 'em hair-poppin' sharp) than anything else and absolutely cuts like a a laser throught nylon rope, cardboard, etc. I have knives made of 154CM, 440C, S30V, AUS8, and AUS6. The S30 V is also a good slicer, but not as good as VG10 in my experience. In all honesty, I would even prefer 154 CM in a folder over S30V (easier to sharpen is really the only reason). On a bigger fixed blade (6-7 inches) I would prefer S30V for it's toughness and the fact that it isn't hard to maintain. Anything above 7 inches, I'd look into a good carbon steel (3V, A2, S7, 5160) for added toughness.
 
I like the highly polished edge I can get on VG10, and how it is relatively easy to keep this edge.

S30V always seems a bit toothy to me, and I don't seem to be able to get the same clean edge as I can get with VG10

I'm waiting on a Chris Reeve Warrior at the moment. I'm hoping that this will be just about the ultimate knife to have in S30V, and that the design and heat treat will get the best out of S30V.

David
 
I think S30V is more abrasion resistant and probably a little harder on the Rc scale, but S30V is more difficult to sharpen, and generally more expensive.
 
I take either one.

Coming from my own little experience: VG-10 just likes to take an edge, S30V is more difficult but its abrasion resistance is pretty amazing. Simply by looking at the thin trail it leaves on a brightly colored stone tells you that you will spend longer sharpening it. It still takes a sweet edge and the edge holding especially on stuff like cardboard is rather amazing.
 
I've got S30V from a few different companies and I'm pleased with the edge holding on all of it. The VG-10 has a unique "bite" to it that you can actually feel -- :eek: (fingers bleeding).
 
Thanks for the replies.
I guess I'm surprised that S30V would corrode. Isn't nitrogen the key in the new H1 steel that supposedly is so corrosion resistant? And if so why would S30V corrode when it contains more nitrogen in it than the new H1 steel does?

Puzzling equation there.

I have been very happy with my VG10 blades. My latest Spyderco, Viele folder has that steel and it is a real biter of an edge.

But I agree with whoever it was that said good things about 154CM I have some Protechs and Micro Techs that have that steel and they have been good cutters and edge keepers for sure.
 
The REPLACEMENT of carbon wit nitrogen (going from carbites to nitrides) makes H1 so impervious to corrosion. S30V has a WOPPING amount of Carbon and actually needs a fair amount of Cr to keep it a stainless steel. It's nowhere near H1 in corrosion resistance. As a matter of fact may people say it rusts mor easily than VG-10. Personally I think that is more a matter of the finish. The finish of S30V is generally much rougher than VG-10 which goes also for the edge, but you can fix that on the sharpmaker for example.
 
The fact that it is harder to put a fine satin finish on S30V than it is to put a fine satin finish on VG10 must have something to do with S30V's potential to corrode. With a rougher surface there are a lot more places for moisture and gunk to settle.

I love my Fallknivens, because of the laminated blades. Putting VG10 between layers of 420J gives you an excellent combination of corrosion resistance and a scary sharp edge.

David
 
Both are fine steels. I have noticed that S30V lasts a wee bit longer, while VG-10 gets a finer edge. VG-10 is also easier to sharpen.
 
The 'test' turned out to be a waste of time. The Spyderco had a higher edge profile. Both blades would need the same profile. In fact, I think you could have given the edge on the S30V a lower profile than the VG-10 for the same amount of wear. As for finish, the rough finish is all about cost. S30V takes a fine polish. It just takes more effort than most makers in the $80 price range are willing to put into it. Take a close look at the Cuda Dominator by Camillus if you want a smooth S30V blade. The S30V edge takes a fine polish, too. It just takes more time. Once done, it holds it well.
I use a Lonewolf Ranger S30V 4.9" model. It stays in my pocket all day long while I am out wrecking in the Texas heat and humidity without rusting. I also spent some time re-profiling it with diamond hones. It cuts rather well and holds it's edge superbly. In fact, the Lonewolf folder itself is one of the strongest folders I have ever used. I would put it up there with Strider. I do nothing but abuse it and it comes back for more.

WYK
 
How do the steels resist chipping? Say you are cutting something and you slip and the blade hits a rock or a steel bar? Or you find yourself cutting wire?

If the knife has high wear resistance then it will be hard to reprofile. But if it brittle and is prone to chipping.... This does not lend to hard use.

I seem to prefer ease of sharpening over edge holding. "Hard Use" will strip the edge off no matter how hard the steel is. For example: digging, cutting metal, etc. There is a story about a man who lent his high dollar knife to his boss and the boss cut a tarp with it...by ranking it over a brick wall! :mad:

I think I'll take the edge that is easier to fix..
 
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