VG10 vs. S30V

I haven't owned anything in S30V. I've had several VG-10 knives and really like the steel. Looking at money, I would imagine that S30V is probably a better steel but without actually handling it, that is pure speculation. One point that you may need to note is that you will probably not find any VG-10 customs out there. It is a proprietary steel from one plant in Japan. I don't know if they even sell any blade stock. S30V on the other hand is available to custom makers. If you are choosing a steel to have a knife made for you, I think the decision is made already.
Doc
 
Prefer S30V, for sure.

It is tougher at a given hardness. So it'll either resist chipping better at that given hardness, or can be run several (2-3) points higher Rockwell C scale and demonstrate similar toughness, and harder means more resistance to edge rolling.

S30V contains significant vanadium and so has an appreciable vanadium carbide content, and so will demonstrate better abrasion resistance.

S30V should also demonstrate as good or better overall grain structure/refinement due to the CPM process.

S30V makes a great small blade. S30V is the best choice for a large blade where you want stainless.

S30V is, to me, the best all around, balanced choice in stainless right now. And indeed, VG-10 is only going to be on factory knives that are made in Japan... not available to custom makers.

Use the search engine and look for threads on S30V that talk about this steel vs. others.
 
In all fairness, I have seen Japanese customs by Kansei Mitsuno made from VG-10. There are some advantages to VG-10. VG-10 is very easy to sharpen and it takes a scary sharp edge like AUS-8 except that it holds it much longer. I own some S30V blades but I haven't had to sharpen them yet so I don't know how easy they are to sharpen. I do know that similar steels like 420V and 440V can be very difficult for those of average sharpening skills to bring to a good edge. Another advantage of VG-10 is its stain resistance. Remember VG-10 was developed for horticultural work which means that was designed to handle acidic sap coming from plants. I'm not arguing that VG-10 is superior to S30V, I just think that VG-10 is a great steel, especially when one considers the price of many of the knives that are made with VG-10.
 
I think I have become a steel snob. I have knives in both VG 10 and S30v. I am hard pressed to say what one is better, they both are very very good steels. I like them both and would not be disapointed with a knife made from iether.They both sharpen up very nicely and easily. Both are fairly tuff and hold a good edge for a long time. In my oopinion are as stainless as anyone needs.A true knife nut needs both :)
 
I've used VG10 in Spydercos (Calypso Jr and Moran drop pt) and Fallknivens and it is an excellent, balanced steel in its own right. I also have been regularly using an S30V Simonich Wambli for the past two months and, in my experience, S30V is in another league altogether. The 60 RC Wambli keeps its edge without rolling or chipping far better than my D2 Dozier or BG42 Sebenza, both with similar keen edge profiles (convexed, less than 20 degrees inclusive). In the same activity -- cutting, peeling, and slightly prying wood spurs and branches on Meyer lemon trees -- the Wambli kept cutting very cleanly and with little noticeable edge wear, long after the Dozier and Benz lost their edges to microchipping.

I don't currently own an A2 blade, but I would be keen to measure S30V's toughness to, say, and small Chris Reeve fixed or other A2. I'd bet that the S30V blade would fare well in comparison.

Glen
 
Originally posted by storyville
The 60 RC Wambli keeps its edge without rolling or chipping far better than my D2 Dozier or BG42 Sebenza ... In the same activity -- cutting, peeling, and slightly prying wood spurs and branches on Meyer lemon trees -- the Wambli kept cutting very cleanly and with little noticeable edge wear, long after the Dozier and Benz lost their edges to microchipping.
Glen
Click to expand...

Wow. Long after the Dozier lost it's edge... seriously, no sarcasm, that is really saying something. :eek: Dozier might actually, finally, have cause to offer both steels, if not switch outright.

Simonich did well with the heat treat... but the good news is that so far, the makers are reporting that S30V is very tractable to heat treat. That was one of Crucible's design goals.

Thanks for posting, storyville.
 
Glen, how did you know it was micro chipping? A visual check, or feel of the edge? How do the blade compared on lighter work for edge retention like cutting rope or cardboard. Informative post.

-Cliff
 
And to think before I started spending too much time on knife forums I thought 52100, ATS-34 and 145-CM were the absolute best steel in the world. I never noticed anything wrong and all of a sudden if it is not S30V, CPM-440V, or VG-10 it is just a "basic knife".

OH NO!!!! What have you all done to me? :( :confused: ;)
 
Yea, I just picked up a Strider AR in S30V. It's an awesome blade, to say the least. Now I need more S30V... and some INFI... and some VG10...:) Jeez, this forum is driving me to drink.
 
Originally posted by Cliff Stamp
Glen, how did you know it was micro chipping? A visual check, or feel of the edge? How do the blade compared on lighter work for edge retention like cutting rope or cardboard. Informative post.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

Cliff,

Both. As the blades required noticeably more pressure to keep cutting, I'd check them with my fingernail and could feel it slightly skipping. But nothing clearly visible to the naked eye. Later with an 8X loupe, I could see an irregular string of nicks where the edges saw the most use (closer to the handle). Incidentally, there were more of these "microchips" on the D2 than the BG42, although the Dozier canoe knife outlasted the large Sebenza by a fair bit.

Perhaps "lost their edges" sounds too extreme, also. Both probably could have sliced up cardboard easily without catching; but they definitely required more effort to slice/pop off dried spurs and branches. After at least 30 min more work than the Dozier, the Wambli showed little slowing down, and its edge had no microchips at all. The Wambli is slightly bigger than the large Sebenza, which is a little bigger than the Dozier, but I was using maybe 2" to 2-1/2" of edge max on all three.

With regards to other cutting: I don't have (or use) sisal or any of the thicker ropes, but it seems like such a good medium for measuring edge life, so I'll need to pick some up. As for cardboard, actually I haven't compared my blades face to face, but will do so when I collect a good pile of it.

Rdangerer,

I think S30V has a good shot at becoming a new "benchmark" steel because it is relatively inexpensive (esp. for its performance gain), and because it is so "friendly" to heat treat. Chris Reeve apparently played a role in bringing it to market and is already using it (albeit at the "debatable" RC of 58-59). But no doubt Spyderco and other companies will be turning out more affordable models in the next year or two. It will be interesting to see if S30V's performance remains consistent as it debuts in these more affordable varieties (and nothing currently indicates any reason to believe otherwise).

Sorry for the late reply -- haven't been able to check in daily --

Glen
 
Glen, thanks for the information. It seems that S30V does have a functional level of additional toughness over the stainless steels. Have you compared it to any of the carbon steels yet? I would be interested where you would place it toughness wise (benchmark) against whatever you have at hand. Nice bevels by the way, 22 factory bevels are probably not cutting it for you any more.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

No, I haven't yet run it against any carbon steels in any meaningful way, but I'm interested to do so. I'll have a lot more time from work in a month or so, and will give it a go with some non-/low-alloyed carbon steels by mid-summer. I'll post whatever I learn then.

As for factory bevels: Yes, slowly but surely, I've picked up quite a few tips from you, Joe Talmadge, and others over the past 2-3 years. I'm still experimenting with what angles work best (and what I like best), how to best sharpen/hone/steel/strop them, for what tasks and under what conditions, etc., and I've made some mistakes along the way; but those have been some of the most illuminating lessons. It is still amazing to me to see the often-dramatic increases in performance gained even by a little reprofiling. Learning to find that optimized balance between fine cutting performance and edge strength/durability has been time-consuming, often frustrating, and sometimes costly, but it has probably become the most rewarding aspect of being a "knifeknut" for me since finding these forums. That "optimal bevel" will differ from knife to knife and user to user, of course (depending on steel, heat treat, intended uses, and user's skill). But finding it can be one of the most enlightening experiences for an informed, curious, real-world user who wants to discover his/her knife's real-world limits and maximum potential, as you have shown time and time again.

So thank YOU for helping to "light the path" --

Glen
 
Right on Glen. Finding the right edge takes some work but for me is one of the best parts of being a knife nut. I like to call the edge I like "My Edge". It is different on every knife I have and takes a little time to find out how to put it on. Great fun.
 
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