VG10 vs S30V

M

Muppet

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Apr 2, 2004
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What's the current wisdom on VG10 vs S30V?

Seems like the S30V blades are a good deal more expensive in general but I haven't heard, other than resistance-to-breaking-when-prying what the difference is between the two steels?

I just gave away my EDC "Golden, Colorado, Earth" Native in S30V, and I'm looking for a new knife. The Calpyso Jr looks like a great deal... but VG10.

What do you think, guys? Would I like it?
 
I have knives in S30V but ONLY carry knives in VG-10 (Delica/Endura). I've actually cut metal wire with mine with practically no edge damage. I really don't think S30V is worth the diff in price, unless you what a Military, ATR, or Chinook anyway :)
 
i agree with Spydie. maybe it's because i don't have any S30V knives yet, but looking at the price difference (though granted, it's not HUGE), i'd happily take any knife in VG-10 over S30V, if it means i'll save some money.

VG-10 is killer. period.


what i'd really like to see is some D2 in Spyderco's knives. i love it.

abe m.
 
Only S30V knife I've used enough for it to need sharpening is the C41 Native, so perhaps I just have more practice sharpening VG10, but do find it a bit easier to sharpen. Both hold an edge extremely well, the S30V perhaps a hair better. I look at it mostly as a logistics issue. Both are excellent quality steels, but shipping S30V to Japan or VG10 to Golden would be less cost effective than using "local" steel.

A well sharpened Calypso Jr. is like a feather in your pocket, and a laser in your hand. Unless you fall into the trap of equating that lightness with "cheapness" you're going to enjoy it. And, if a fair part of your cutting involves thick material, you'll doubly appreciate the full flat grind.
 
I like em both, S30V holds an edge much longer IMHO. I have a SE Dodo thats been my edc for over a year now, it might need a touch up.....soon, maybe, I think. VG-10 is no slouch either. Cheers, Rob
 
Edge chipping has been my experience with S30V. My Native had a bunch of microchipping, most noticealbly on the plainedge part near the tip, when I first started using it hard. I sharpened the chips out and they haven't come back. Maybe the factory's grinder got the blade a little too hot and now that I'm down "past" that part everything's okay?? I honestly don't know. :confused:

I also snapped two teeth clean off on my S30V Military trying to cut some rather stout plastic "zip" ties. Very depressing day, that was. Shortly after that I was packing my serrated Calypso Junior and have been pretty much ever since. That little feller doesn't disappoint.

I choose VG-10 above S30V now that I've owned and used both in real world applications. Also, VG-10 gets scary sharp on the Sharpmaker with little effort. S30V never seems to quite get to that level of sharpness, although my plainedge Dodo is a savage cutter the edge just doesn't get the "feel" to it that VG gets. Hard to explain. :(
 
Harry Callahan said:
I choose VG-10 above S30V now that I've owned and used both in real world applications. Also, VG-10 gets scary sharp on the Sharpmaker with little effort. S30V never seems to quite get to that level of sharpness, although my plainedge Dodo is a savage cutter the edge just doesn't get the "feel" to it that VG gets. Hard to explain. :(
Click to expand...

same impressions here...however, I do request for S30V in my customs. If Chris Reeve, Jerry Hossom, Tom Mayo say that S30V is good, then it's good for me. Damn, I wished I snagged that beautiful Kansei Matsuno VG10 framelock on ebay sometime back.... :grumpy:
 
Agree with Deacon!
The Calypso Jr is a dream knife, in the VG10, there is nothing like it.

My larger knives are in S30V (Military, Para Military) and they perform almost
as well as the VG10 Calypso. The "almost" is probably because of the thicker (edge profile) blade.

Conclusion:
* A little harder to sharpen S30V. * S30V holds as edge a little longer.
* VG10 cuts like a light sabre. * A joy to sharpen.

* You can't go wrong with either.
Price of S30V = you usually get premium handle material with it! no FRN!
 
I agree with "Wotanson" that the Dodo with S30V is truly one great EDC and "take to work" knife. I have other knives with S30V and they are superb. The VG-10 is highly respectable in my book and I have several knives made with it. As far as taking punishment I personally think the S30V is worth the price difference. There are 2 older blade steels that I have always thought to be way underrated. They were AUS-10 and ATS-55. Please don't overlook them. ;)
 
Many years ago I read that the steel industry had developed VG-10 specifically for the Japanese horticulture industry.
They wanted a stainless steel that would have a natural micro-saw edge, so that they could cut grafts by sawing rather than wedging, and thus not crush the plant's capillaries.
I have since done searches on this subject and have only come up with my own posts to this effect on BladeForums.
I would like to know the facts of the matter.

By reputation, VG-10 and D-2 both take a very fine edge that cuts very aggressively.
Supposedly, they both have fragility issues that predispose them to smaller blades. but I note that Bob Dozier, Kabar and Fallkniven use these steels in larger blades; and, of further note though, Fallkniven offers several laminated versions of VG-10 blades in larger sized blades, perhaps in recognition of the fragility questions.
Again, I'd like to know the facts of the matter.
 
Muppet,
In comparison, S30V is a harder steel than VG-10. S30V was designed specifically for cutlery by Crucible, an American company. The steel does hold an edge quit longer than VG-10 and is more stain/ rust resistant than VG-10. Its chemical composition is different thatn VG-10. The composition of both steels can be seen on Spyderco's web site. S30V is a great steel for knives but, the only dawback, IMHO, is that it can be a pain to sharpen on a Sharpmaker. A keen cutting can be made on S30V blades witha sharpmaker; it just takes more time and "elbow grease" to do so.
VG-10 is a good steel and is easy to sharpen. It can chip under the right conditions. But, a person with even limited knowledge can sharpen or remove chips out of the blade with relative ease. VG-10 can be restored to a hair-popping edge with ease on a Sharpmaker. It has weaknesses such as greater possiblities of chipping, bending, and even breaking under extreme circuamstances. Still, VG-10 is fine for the average user who does not mind sharpening more often. I know all this as I currently use two knives; one of each blade steel. I've compared the two over time and noted the items mentioned above. To me, either steel is fine. However, simply because of the increased work needed to sharpen a S30V blade, I've come to prefer VG-10 blades. That may change when I get an Apex. Hope this helps.
 
Hateman I agree with you that S30V does indeed take significantly more time and effort to put an edge on even with a sharpmaker. I will emphasize that with that blade steel you need a super agressive abrasive to reprofile with. Now I went ahead and got the Diamond stones for my 204 Sharpmaker kit some time ago. Especially on my Dodo with the S30V it really does take some patience to resharpen a blade of that shape/configuration. The diamond 204 stones are great but they don't even do it in microwave fashion. For most conventional knives I have the good fortune of owning an industrial grade Norton 325 grit Diamond benchstone. That stone is very aggressive and makes S30V much more tolerable. The dividends from the extra effort are well worth it. :)
 
i'm rather new to quality steel. i just got some S30V and i've found that it is a *itch to sharpen. it's nice when it's done, (never handled sharper steel myself) but it's the first blade i worried about getting accidently cut with. my next best steel is 440C (i know it's quite a bit of difference) and can cut right with the S30V, but will never last as long. *blade shape will effect the way steel performes, and may be ultimately more important than steel choice*
my .02 cents
 
Hateman said:
Muppet,
In comparison, S30V is a harder steel than VG-10. .
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I don't know any companies who heat treat their S30V harder than their VG-10. In the earlier days, you weren't seeing S30V above 58 Rc, though that's changed. For edge retention, there are some jobs for which hardness can be more important than wear resistance, and for a long time, VG-10 knives were generally harder than S30V. That gap has closed a bunch, but you see VG-10 at 59-60 Rc all the time.

Joe
 
Mr. Glesser said in some thread that they found that S30V performs better if it is run slightly softer then their other steels.
 
Ken Cox said:
Many years ago I read that the steel industry had developed VG-10 specifically for the Japanese horticulture industry.
They wanted a stainless steel that would have a natural micro-saw edge, so that they could cut grafts by sawing rather than wedging, and thus not crush the plant's capillaries.
I have since done searches on this subject and have only come up with my own posts to this effect on BladeForums.
I would like to know the facts of the matter.
Click to expand...


Okay Ken, this took a bit of looking but I found something...

Actually, I found a lot but as you said, a lot of it was posts from you (or even from me, I'm a fan of VG-10 and had heard the same story of its development and repeated it.) As I searched I found many posts saying the same thing, but they all seemed to come from the same source, certain words or phrases were common from different posters, in threads, sometimes years apart and on different fora. It looked like this info appeared somewhere once and then was simply passed around over and over.

Until...

I found where it actually came from Sal himself:

http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=357&highlight=vg-10+origin

Hope this soothes the voices, it did for me. :D
 
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