"vibrating" broadsword in movie "Ironclad"

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22willdo

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Jun 8, 2014
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Hi,
I recently watched the movie "Ironclad" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1233301/). Great fight scenes. On the whole, only slightly above average, though.

I was wondering about one thing: At about 00:49:38 into the the film, the character "Thomas Marshal" (played by James Purefoy) rests the tip of his approx. 5-foot broadsword (incl. handle/grip) on the ground ... and the blade vibrates.

Is that normal? Were/are big broadswords actually build this way? Please excuse my naivety, but: does that say anything about the resistibility of the blade? Now, I've seen the torture tests on those Swamprat/Scrapyard swords, where they bend the blade beyond a 90-degree angle (IIRC), but a blade that bends under it's own weight ... I dunno. Made it look like a Wushu sword.

I have no experience with this. I've never handled anything bigger than a 22-inch machete. But this movie/depiction gave me the impression that I could actually break a broadsword with a $20-machete. I must be mistaken somehow. Probably never paid enough attention in physics class.
 
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Don't worry.....The rubber prop sword bent........

Anything you see in most movies regarding swords will likely be wrong.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "vibrated".
 
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Some swords within historical parameters do sag under their own weight. A lot of modern swords of modern design are grossly overbuilt and overweight with the philosophy of using them for prybars and axes.

I highly doubt the ability to break any sword of worth (historic or modern made) with a $20 machete.

An old page but a decent place to start for the uninformed
http://www.palus.demon.co.uk/Sword_Stats.html

Cheers

GC
 
Horseclover is correct, historical swords where build to be light and lean for speed. Blades "vibrating" and sagging under their own weight when rested against something is a reality in later medieval and renaissance swords, but I doubt it's historically accurate for the period (12:th century). The steel in early medieval Europe was quite crappy until high quality Spanish steel became common in the 14:th century, with the exception for special imports. Even if it was indeed possible to get hold of the steel, only rare, the sword-designs of the day where not of the long springy type. Crappier steel=thicker and stiffer cross-sections. As the steel evolved, so did the design.

So, not historically accurate but very much real and possible. Since you're cutting with the edge and not the flat, spring sideways is rarely an issue. A stiffer blade IS easier to cut well with, but usually the weight-savings and nimbleness of a slim and springy sword is prioritized over raw cutting capacity.
 
Reminds me of this video...
[video=youtube;EDkoj932YFo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDkoj932YFo[/video]
They do some stabbing test towards the end (around 7min) and you can see that the broadsword flexs quite a bit.
I would guess that the prop sword was made of spring steel but tempered waay back to make it more forgiving and less likely to break during filming. You wouldn't need a prop sword to hold an edge, but you would want it to spring back and hold it's shape too some degree.
 
Thrusting with a two hand or even some hand and a half swords were usually done with one hand gripping the blade like they would do with a spear gripping at the end and half way up the shaft. If you grab the blade half way up it is not that flexible anymore. There are illustrated treatises from the middle ages out there that explain how European swords were actually used. In short the entire sword was used all the way from the pommel to the tip and you could just as easily use the sword as a hammer or a hook to pull armored opponents off their feet gripping the blade tip as using it gripping the hilt. It wasn't swung around like you often see in movies, not very often atleast.
That R. Lee Ermey clip where they compare the katana with a European longsword is wrong on so many levels and in so many ways it is almost painful to watch. Not going to hate on the katana, i know how much it means to people here, but the European sword was in essence thrown under the bus there as the outcome probably was decided beforehand. There are clips on YT that examines that infamous comparison in a little more detail than i can here.
 
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