Vic Soldier / Wenger SI

J

jpvjr

Joined
Feb 19, 2007
Messages
340
OK guys settle a bet for me will ya. I say that even before Wenger was bought out by Victorinox, the SI, & Soldier were built to the same specs. The only difference is the SI has a bail, & the Vic uses softer steel in its tools (not just the blade). Theres a pizza & beer (for them) riding on this so you have my permission to say I'm right.:D
I'm more sophisticated I insist they get me some scrapple & shoefly.
 
You won. For about 100 years the Swiss military contract has been split equally between Victorinox and Wenger. The hollow rivet was present on Vics for some years, and Wengers had bales for some years. There are some other (more subtle) differences (like brass liner on SIs, blade shape, etc.), but both were built to the same spec. My understanding is also that Vic had to grant Wenger the use of the patented can opener only for use on the SI.

All this may change this year, as Swiss Army "opened" competitive bidding on the new SAK contract. The "opened" is in quotes because they somehow managed to restrict the entrants to the 3 companies. Vic is a heavy favourite to win this, so chances are that Wenger will no longer make a (new) SI, but rather continue with their innovative line of SAKs (NewRanger, EvoGrips, etc.).
 
"All this may change this year, as Swiss Army "opened" competitive bidding on the new SAK contract. The "opened" is in quotes because they somehow managed to restrict the entrants to the 3 companies."

3 companies? Which one is third?
 
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billinvegas said:
"All this may change this year, as Swiss Army "opened" competitive bidding on the new SAK contract. The "opened" is in quotes because they somehow managed to restrict the entrants to the 3 companies."

3 companies? Which one is third?
Click to expand...

I thought Swiss Bianco mentioned something about putting together a submission.
 
I never heard that victorinox used softer steel,can anyone provide specs to that effect?
 
Roger (SwissBianco) did not submit his proposal. The schedule and terms of the trials were such that it was impossible for him to participate. I don't know who the 3rd company is (or, who the 2nd company is, in case Victorinox/Wenger are making a single submission). Maybe Roger will be able to shed more light on this. He is now back to Switzerland, but will be mostly offline for the next few days.
 
"jpvjr"
Can't comment about actual facts; but I had always suspected that Victorinox had taken "heat treatment" more seriously.
Hence, Victorinox blade edges always remained that more keener and sharper much longer, in comparison to the Wengers.
Also I do recall having read years ago, that the French speaking Swiss who made Wengers utilized Swedish steel.
And the German speaking Swiss who made Victorinox were manufactured from imported Solingen steel (but of course! Remember the GAK?).
There's something I wish to point out about the hollow rivets.
In that, they are perceived to be structurally weaker when compared to a solid rivet.
I suspect hollow rivets were used originally, in order to slip through the bails.
Can't say which year when Victorinox stopped this practice of not having bails attached through the hollow rivets.
Or was that just wear and tear of the bails or some soldiers idea of field modifications?
As for the physical differences try SOSAKonLINE.
-http://www.sosakonline.com/index.php
option=com_content&task=view&id=126&Itemid=35
 
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On the rivet note, from what I remember, the original purpose of the rivet (as per some pictures from the Soldier's Manual posted by SwissBianco at some point on KF) was to tie a piece of string and use the SAK as a weight to establish vertical when shooting a grenade launcher attached to the rifle. At some point the rifle was decomissioned, at which point the hollow rivet became optional, and Victorinox dropped it. Wenger chose to keep it and use it for the bail...
 
jpvjr said:
OK guys settle a bet for me will ya. I say that even before Wenger was bought out by Victorinox, the SI, & Soldier were built to the same specs. The only difference is the SI has a bail, & the Vic uses softer steel in its tools (not just the blade). Theres a pizza & beer (for them) riding on this so you have my permission to say I'm right.:D
I'm more sophisticated I insist they get me some scrapple & shoefly.
Click to expand...

Though I don't own a Wenger SI, I do own at least 5 Wengers and countless Victorinoxes, including 2 Soldiers. Both make great knives, but in my personal experience, the Vic knife blades seem to come sharper, hold their edges better, and sharpen up just a little bit better. I've always felt that the Wenger blades are (or were) softer than the Vics.
Jim
 
I have always felt that the victorinox had harder blades or at least just as hard as the wenger,I have several of both,but have never really tested them side by side.which is why I was curious about actual proof as to the rc hardness of both steels,If I find anything I will post info.
 
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I've always felt that Vic was slightly better than Wenger, but my SI (my only Wenger) is a tank! It's build quality and materials are on par with any alox Vic I've handled. I got the SI on an impulse in a trade here on BF, and it has turned out to be one of my favorite edc's. I removed the bail after annoyingly closing the blad on it a couple of times. It is much more pocketable and I could always thread a string through the rivet if I needed to. The scout pattern is just about the perfect balance between utility and minimalism, and I wouldn't be afraid to really abuse it if I had to, since it is cheap and easy to replace.
 
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