Victorinox Fibrox 10" to sharpen or not...

J

JonnyBoy369

Joined
May 25, 2014
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Hi all, I just got the Victorinox 10" chef knife to replace my well used but very cheaply made Thai Kiwi knife. I like it so far , but it isn't what the Kiwi was as far as sharp. I have a 6000 grit stone I use on all my kitchen knives. Tomatoes are my test usually and the factory Victorinox edge is not cutting them as adept as my edge on the old knife. My question is should I resharpen it already or not? My old knife is a lot thinner also. It feels like a toy and aesthetically I don't like the Kiwi, but it was insanely sharp. Is it possible that my stone sharpening will make the Victorinox better? I hear nothing but great reviews of the knife and I really don't want to mess with the new factory edge unless it will make it sharper than it is...
 
I always put my own edge on a knife as soon as I get it in my hands. Why not? What's the point of trying to prolong the factory edge as much as possible if it's going to need to be sharpened eventually? Do you have troubles sharpening?
 
No I've gotten pretty good at sharpening, you pretty much answered my question. I'll sharpen it tomorrow. I guess I thought a factory edge would last longer maybe than it did, by the end of day 1 it was already less sharp. It's the first knife I've ever had new besides those 4 dollar Thai ones. I just wanted to make sure. I guess I thought the factory edge was somehow special lol obviously not.
 
Victorinox's blade steel (X50CrMoV15, at 55-56 HRC) will absolutely take very fine edges. It's not very hard steel, so these fine edges will be somewhat delicate; the flipside is, maintenance is almost effortless in touching them up, with a minimal number of passes on something like a medium (brown/grey) ceramic or a Fine/EF diamond hone (or rod); use either with VERY LIGHT PRESSURE. I'd suggest using a finer grit hone/stone over something coarser, as the finer abrasives suit the fine grain of the steel very well. For cleaning up burrs after honing, some white rouge (AlOx) compound on something like fabric/denim works very well (again, with a minimum of strokes).

If you want to thin the factory edge on your Victorinox, it's not hard to do; the steel grinds very easily. And the cutting for kitchen-related tasks (like tomatoes) will definitely improve. I recently picked up a set of 3 paring knives from Victorinox, and I've already thinned the edge on one of them; so, the topic is timely and fresh on my mind. :)


David
 
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Ugly-sin kiwi knives are quite good - yes, they can get scary sharp & have decent edge retention. If for my own use - I wouldn't downgrade to a Fibrox. IME - kiwi has about the same performance as Wusthof Classic.

320 to 400 grit finish should work well Fibrox knives.
 
Chris "Anagarika";13794931 said:
Bluntcut, David, the EEF DMT is best to maintain/touch up Vic steel, with light pressure of course!
:thumbup:
Click to expand...

I'll have to tinker with that too. So far, I've been using either Fine or EF DMT credit card hones (& also the diamond rods on an A.G. Russell V-crock sharpener) for thinning or touching up these blades, followed by the light stropping on white rouge. I also have an EEF Dia-Fold though (I tend to forget I have it, sometimes); I guess I'll have to try that on for size as well. :)


David
 
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I only tried dmt EE on Vic paring & 12" Scimitar, didn't worked well - edges fail very quickly. Maybe newer Vic's knives are harder & finer grain - IDK. otoh, Kiwi took high polish - down to 0.1um - edge quite well, not bad for a $3 knife from Thailand.

Chris "Anagarika";13794931 said:
Bluntcut, David, the EEF DMT is best to maintain/touch up Vic steel, with light pressure of course!
:thumbup:
Click to expand...
 
Wow you have a serious point. I really thought I was upgrading to the Victorinox. I honestly think I mostly switched because everyone had convinced me the Kiwi knives suck because they are so cheap. Ive honestly never used a sharper kitchen knife than them. I really hate to think I spent $44 on an inferior knife. What really surprised me one day was coming in and the chef was using my kiwi. He has many hundreds of dollars Shuns and he grudgingly admitted the Kiwi was more useful. Lol. I should have gone with my first instinct and trusted in my own kit.
 
David, my EEF is a gift from Bluntcut (thanks!), the small duosharp (?) 4x1.

Bluntcut,
Strange. The Vic Paring that we use takes very nice edge with the EEF ;)
It removes all the dings/rolls fast (eat the metal) and barely need pressure. It feels more like steeling the knife with the EEF and I could dry shave with it (no stropping needed).

To OP,
Try sharpening it .. Shouldn't be a bad knife I guess, but Bluntcut said 'downgrade' so the Kiwi must be something. Pics?
 
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Thanks Obsessed, I just got done with the Vics first sharpening. I used the 6000 grit and very light. It took a wicked edge in 5 minutes. I held it up to the light and can see those tiny burrs. It ripped a sheet of paper to shreds perfectly. I think I wanna leave those burrs to help cut through the pepper and tomato skins tomorrow. Its as sharp as my old Kiwi now. Now I need to learn how to properly sharpen my old Chicago Cutlery boning knife and 66s slicing knife. These are all my daily knife kit and all I need, I have them sharp but want them like the Vic. I tried to put them on the 6000 grit side and it made them duller than just the 1000 grit side.
 
JonnyBoy369 said:
Thanks Obsessed, I just got done with the Vics first sharpening. I used the 6000 grit and very light. It took a wicked edge in 5 minutes. I held it up to the light and can see those tiny burrs. It ripped a sheet of paper to shreds perfectly. I think I wanna leave those burrs to help cut through the pepper and tomato skins tomorrow. Its as sharp as my old Kiwi now. Now I need to learn how to properly sharpen my old Chicago Cutlery boning knife and 66s slicing knife. These are all my daily knife kit and all I need, I have them sharp but want them like the Vic. I tried to put them on the 6000 grit side and it made them duller than just the 1000 grit side.
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Good to hear that. :thumbup:

If your old Chicago Cutlery knives are the walnut-handled & stainless ones, you might want to stick with a coarser stone on those. My mother has used one of their old block sets from the '70s-'80s, and I've been tuning those up with either a medium/fine diamond rod, or a simple AlOx (grey) pocket stone I bought at Sears for ~ $2.50 or so. Most knives I've seen like these older kitchen knives in simple stainless don't hold a fine (polished) edge very well at all, as the steel seems somewhat coarse-grained; nor do they cut as well at higher finish (the 'bite' just goes away). Something around 320-600 grit, as compared to the spec for diamond hones like a DMT Coarse or Fine, seems to leave some nice 'tooth' on these blades. Thinning the factory edge on them will also greatly improve how they slice; as with the Victorinox blades, they'll still need relatively frequent touch-ups. When I touch them up (maybe 2X per week), all it takes is a handful of feather-light strokes on the diamond rod. With that simpler AlOx hone, it can tolerate slightly heavier but still very easy pressure. I think that particular stone is best-suited to these blades, as I've liked the edge it produces. I'm thinking I'll even go back to Sears and see if they have a 6" bench stone in the same material (out of stock when I bought the pocket stone).


David
 
Thank you David. Yes they are the old Walnut handled CC blades. I do believe they are simple stainless also. The fine grit definitely dulled them down. I remember when I first got them I sharpened them on our stone at work that's a lot coarser than my new one and they were sharper. I'm just learning these things, and I assumed my new Shun stone would work best for them so I was surprised they dulled and thought my technique was bad. Not so I see. I'm going to put them back on the house stone I think it's about 600 grit it's pretty coarse. My next invest is a diamond steel. As a sidenote, I really like the old CC knives. I have a lot of them that I always find at Thrift Stores and for a dollar I can't see not buying them. As I'm only cutting meat, bone, and fish skin with them and not much I think the rough edge will make them perfect for this. There is something about them I just really like, they are obsolete sure but they were made to last and do some heavy work. If I were a butcher I'd probably invest in some more up to date Forschners or F. Dick but for my limited applications they are just right.
 
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The Fibrox line from Victorinox is your entry level cutting tool in most kitchens and production facilities. The steel is soft and easy to maintain but will also need a lot of maintenance to keep it sharp. A coarser edge will last longer on these blades and will make them cut very well.

Personally, I like to use my belt sander with a 80 grit belt followed by a good polishing wheel to remove the burr. If hand sharpened a 1k waterstone is as high as I would go. I've also had impressive results with a 220 stone and a ceramic rod.
 
On my Chicago cutlery, I seem to get results every bit as good as any other method using the underside of a mug or mixing bowl to restore the edge, then use the glazed rim to 'steel' it. On my two Chicago knives, this edge will dry shave some stubble off my jawline (not comfortably). As pointed out, it won't hold it long, but on kitchen cutlery IMHO is best to have a fast strategy for touching them up, rather than shoot for the longest lasting edge to begin with.

Am fond of a toothier edge in the realm of a 1k, stropped on newspaper for my utility and paring knives - generally use a finer finish only for my Chef's knives.


A very useful trick for mid 50s RC cutlery that won't respond well to finer polishing stones or for a faster touch-up - sharpen it up on the 1k, carefully drag a sheet of paper over the stone to collect the abrasive mud, let the sheet dry (it should visibly have a bunch of mud on it, might have to whip some up using another knife, piece of clean hack saw blade etc), wrap that around a dry stone and use it for a strop. Will get several touch-ups from the paper before it loads up.

A short video I made showing how this is done on a Washboard but works very well on a regular stone too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXr-FPME-jc
 
Thank you guys for all the advice. I cant really get a belt sander ive nowhere to put it, but I can get a coarser stone. This has been a learning process, I invested 80 in the 6000 grit stone and I see now I didnt need it. I can pick up a coarse stone for 2.99 in Chinatown. I resharpened evry CC knife I had on the new stone when I got it, except one the slicer and it is the sharpest one. I had sharpened it with a coarse Chinatown stone. I have one item left to learn about. I have a Winco Kc-401 steel cleaver new from the box. I want to make it as sharp as possible.
 
I answered my own question and reprofiled the factory edge on the cleaver with just the 1000 grit stone. I reworked my old CC stainless knives with the 1k instead of the 6k , and the Vic has a polished edge with the 6k. They are all shaving sharp now. Thanks again for all the advice, I've been using knives at work for years but I only recently started collecting and maintaining my own.
 
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