Victorinox New Model Production?

PaperKnife

PaperKnife

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I’m submitting this thread out of curiosity, so don’t read it in an upset tone 😁

So…I’ve been wondering why Victorinox hasn’t jumped on the ideas that are presented to them? Or why they don’t browse through forums (even beyond BF) and gather ideas, interest and demand for new models?

I remember when many Vic users wanted a 93mm pioneer with scissors
Modders made them…
People bought them…
Now victorinox produces it (Pioneer X)

Victorinox has a website which allows for community submissions for new product ideas. I’ve submitted my share over the years.

It’s been a demand for a while now for a Cadet X to be made.
(That’s an 84mm Alox Cadet with the addition of scissors)

My question to Victorinox is, what’s the hold-up?

We (knife community) are not necessarily asking for new steels (which could be nice too) but just the addition of one more tool.

What’s stopping the R&D department?
We’re literally telling you what combos to try / make. Is there something I’m missing?

Thanks for lending your ears, just bouncing a question I’ve had for a while.
 
They sell enough of the standard models? Not enough demand for a Cadet X in all their markets? Perhaps because the 85mm Evo Grip 14 and whatever model it is with the phillips screwdriver is (I don't know what the number of the Evo Grip 14 with phillips screwdriver instead of the multi purpose cork screw back tool is.) has the same tool set as the Cadet plus scissors? Not enough people have suggested adding scissors to the Cadet via their website? They feel those wanting scissors on their Cadet could pair their Cadet with a Classic SD? (which is available with ALOX covers) The knife nuts are a very, very, very small minority of consumers? The cost to set up a line to manufacture a "Cadet X" is prohibitive for the expected sales world wide?

I would be shocked if they kept up with all the knife and multitool/multipurpose knife forums, and other social media like Face Book, where knives are spoken of in a positive way. That in and of itself would be a full time job for several people. No doubt there are thousands of forums, plus the Facebook groups. I'm sure there are knife forums in languages other than English around this planet, so they would need people who speak, read, and write the various languages involved.
 
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I’d be curious to know the Production/ sales numbers of various models. I would guess the bigger they get, the fewer they sell. While a Cadet X wouldn’t be any bigger than a small tinker, there must be a reason to not build it.
 
Oddly enough, keeping Victorinox profitable appears to be a delicate balance based on some of the things I've heard over the years. They need to focus their manufacturing time and costs on making the right models in just the right amounts. On top of that, the kinds of things that most people will end up buying aren't always the same as what a relatively small group of vocal enthusiasts want. For example, most enthusiasts agree that nylon scales are superior to celidor because of their scratch resistance, texture, and overall durability, but celidor is more appealing to the general public because it is smooth, glossy, and attractive looking when it's new and sitting on a shelf or being presented in photographs and video. That's why everything is celidor. It sells better. There's also a thriving 2nd hand market to consider. Victorinox is constantly having to compete against its own products in the resale market, so they have to be that much more careful about walking the tightrope to stay profitable. Celidor scales show scratches and wear very easily, which makes factory new knives look more appealing than the ones being offered in the resale market.

I think this is also the reason why you'll see this huge selection of colors and designs for the Classic SD and also models like the Climber to a lesser extent, while most everything else comes only in red celidor. They're offering people what is proven to sell well, and heavily sacrificing other options for things that they feel would be a waste of time for them to make in comparrison. They only have so many machines to use for production, and time is money, so those machines have to be used wisely. It's not like there's just one machine for each model. That's not how it works. So they sit there spending most of their time churning out the select few popular models like the Classic SD and they give you all these superficial options with them, partly to disguise the sheer volume of production compared to other models and partly to entice collectors who they know will buy the same knife over and over again just as long as it has a new color or design on it. Meanwhile those same options aren't available on other models because hardly anyone cares about them.

Where is the alox Rambler, Victorinox? You know damn well you could easily make alox Ramblers, but you don't make any of them. You've decided that it's a waste of time. You would rather make the alox Classic SD in 40 different colors because that is what you're most likely to make money on. That's just the way things are.
 
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It can be stated simply, "We are not their target market". A hundred knife nuts requesting the same model is hardly a blip on the radar when you make 10,000 knives a day. A thousand forumites getting their wish won't buy a day's production. They seem to have disco'd the 84mm scissors in favor of the Delemont version, which I doubt would work in the Cadet. I doubt that all the knife nuts in the world would buy enough Cadet Xs to recover the cost of tooling back up.
 
I appreciate everyone’s views/responses thus far.
It’s interesting to read and I agree on a lot of your points.

It would be interesting if we ever heard from an actual exec or representative of Victorinox (wishful thinking, I know) to hear their views.
 
I would say that for the size and type of company, they are quite responsive. They need a long runway to make sure they are hitting their projections and margins. Once they had the Pioneer X in the bag and it was doing well, the Farmer X was a natural choice and it popped in as well. They are facing some stiff competition, and they know that, so I wouldn't be surprised if they have a plan. Keep in mind that this is a company that has made all the right calls when other companies suffered or tanked their own brands chasing lowest-common-denominator stuff.
 
As far as R&D is concerned, I doubt there is much required for many of the changes we ask for; many of them are simply different tool combinations.

The beauty of the SAK is that the tool layers for a given size range are self-contained and effectively interchangeable (with some exceptions; obviously the corkscrew/Phillips layer must always be on the outside). In theory, the assembly pins are the only parts that would require dimensional changes.

I doubt it would be that simple to put such changes into production, however. Dimensional changes ALWAYS have more effects on the process than we realize initially (I’m saying this as a mechanical engineer). It’s easy enough to make a few changes for a one-off prototype or custom model, but implementing them on the production line might be more challenging and costly. I don’t know the entire assembly process, but at the very least the machines that stamp the rivets would probably need to be adjusted/reprogrammed for the new pin lengths.

Regarding the 84mm scissors, I have seen speculation on the Multitool Forum that Victorinox might not have the tooling to produce them anymore, since they stopped producing 84mm scissors in the 80s or 90s (I can’t remember exactly). That’s a long time to keep old tooling in storage.

Just my two cents.
 
I don't wanna seem like I'm complaining about Vic cause I absolutely love them. I had a case of frustration, seeing, say, the Huntsman existing, which is like a Camper and a Super Tinker together... but I realize I'm probably not going to lose anything crazy from carrying only a Super Tinker, or a Camper + Vic SD. I assume models come about slowly there, and luckily I'm able to find exactly what I need. I just feel robbed of the corkscrew and saw on the Super Tinker.

As to steel, unless I can find someone who can tell me whether a Dragonfly blade can fit on a 91mm SAK, I think I will get an M390 or 20CV reblade when the time comes. But right now, I'm just trying to collect as many of the SAKs I want as possible, which is luckily working out. Has Victorinox ever done a different steel knife?
 
hsherzfeld said:
As far as R&D is concerned, I doubt there is much required for many of the changes we ask for; many of them are simply different tool combinations.

The beauty of the SAK is that the tool layers for a given size range are self-contained and effectively interchangeable (with some exceptions; obviously the corkscrew/Phillips layer must always be on the outside). In theory, the assembly pins are the only parts that would require dimensional changes.

I doubt it would be that simple to put such changes into production, however. Dimensional changes ALWAYS have more effects on the process than we realize initially (I’m saying this as a mechanical engineer). It’s easy enough to make a few changes for a one-off prototype or custom model, but implementing them on the production line might be more challenging and costly. I don’t know the entire assembly process, but at the very least the machines that stamp the rivets would probably need to be adjusted/reprogrammed for the new pin lengths.

Regarding the 84mm scissors, I have seen speculation on the Multitool Forum that Victorinox might not have the tooling to produce them anymore, since they stopped producing 84mm scissors in the 80s or 90s (I can’t remember exactly). That’s a long time to keep old tooling in storage.

Just my two cents.
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My guess would be that the dies wore out and sales of 84mm models with scissors didn't justify the cost of making new tooling. That was before they aquired Wenger, and the Delemont plant.
 
I wonder how well the Pioneer X actually sells - not on this forum but across the world. I was delighted when it came out but I've never bought one. Maybe when the Farmer X comes out in red....
 
Not having scissors on the 84mm currently in production was a deal-breaker for me.

As my collection grows, ☝️this is no longer the case.

I actually enjoy rotating my SAKs now.
 
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Hook or no hook?


rs=w:600,h:600


I’ve done both before (hook/no hook) with 91mm scissors and with 74mm including space for an opposite tool like Phillips.

I think I want to try one with three tools in the scissor layer. 74mm scissors, hook and an opposite tool.

Maybe then Victorinox will decide to make some 84mm X models. :D
 
I can think of several new models I'd like to add to my collection, I've even submitted a few ideas...

I'd love a single layer 91 mm with a main blade & the combo tool, T&T.. oh, with back tools, but with a nail file hook..

I'd like a 85 mm Evo version of the compact.

I'd also like to see a two layer 93 mm Alox with the Compact's toolset.

I'd love a 93 mm with a main blade & a punch, reamer.

Not sure how often they come up with new models..
 
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Just a suggestion! It seems to be a common topic of discussion here and seems to bother a lot of people.
 
TheArab said:
No thank you..

I don't buy the ones i need, I collect the ones I like..
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I think he meant, if you have three that you "like" that could be sold in good condition for, say, $40 each on some site like here or Ebay, for something that you "love", that may be worth it. It is completely fair - I have yet to sell a single knife, truthfully. I love each of my knives. In the words of Zulu "I keep my hoard as close as possible - hugging" 😁

But, I am at a point where I am not, like, desperate financially, but I am not where I was, where I could think nothing of ordering three different American Spydercos in 10 days... so I kind of have to, in order to be fiscally responsible, have a bit of a "one in, one out" policy. I found one of the rare SAKs I really love on Ebay for an exorbitant price, will probably have to let a PM2 or Spyderco go for it...
 
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