video on proper batoning, tool selection, and the importance of skills over gear

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n7titan

Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Messages
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On sites like BF where many users are in the market for a new blade it's inevitable that the questions, what is best, what features are necessary, and what can I bet on, come up quite a bit.
I think this video illustrates a good idea of how little is actually necessary for survival. So much of what we have is icing on the cake. Now that's not to say it's pointless to own top line knives.
I feel that higher grade construction benefits by lasting longer with less maintenance, performing closer to optimal for longer periods of time. That all counts for survival and ownership of any property. Like other things we buy, there's always sense in shopping around for that one with the most bang for your buck.
Just be wary of "absolutes" like "never get X brand or X steel" Get some testimonies, buy what you like, practice your skills, learn what features work well for you, work that into your next purchases.
[video=youtube;7m7YFiePmRY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m7YFiePmRY&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]
 
n7titan,

With full and due respect to you

You will find here on this forum, folk with a much greater knowledge and skill set than the video, therefore posting this link is quite unneeded.
Also if you search battoning on this forum, you will find a wealth on information that will make the video pale by comparison

Also Dave's reasoning in the first minute and a half of the video about battoning is flawed
Examples
  • A 1920 description from Marples to say it is for processing wood, he says this must mean batoning, is simply revisionist
  • He quotes the strength of a rat tail knife by using a Mora Bushcraft Black as the example (a knife that has been on the market just a few years and is strengthened by modern manufactured)

My first field knife is a Sheffield stag handled rat-tail 5" sheath knife from the 60s
I still have it and so will my kids; but let me beat on it to baton, it will break
And the Marples above and this Richards knife are the same construction
 
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I like the wedge use, seems like a good way to save the blade

I've heard that if you keep the handle portion at the same level or slightly above the tip of the blade when batoning it puts less stress on the blade, but I don't remember from where. Is this true, or does it not matter?
 
Daniel Carter Beard wrote a book in the 1920's that included instructions on splitting small wood with a "jackknife." He was born in 1850. He did stress avoiding prying with the knife.
 
neeman said:
Also Dave's reasoning in the first minute and a half of the video about battoning is flawed
Examples
  • A 1920 description from Marples to say it is for processing wood, he says this must mean batoning, is simply revisionist
  • He quotes the strength of a rat tail knife by using a Mora Bushcraft Black as the example (a knife that has been on the market just a few years and is strengthened by modern manufactured)

My first field knife is a Sheffield stag handled rat-tail 5" sheath knife from the 60s
I still have it and so will my kids; but let me beat on it to baton, it will break
And the Marples above and this Richards knife are the same construction
Click to expand...

He says, "brass tacks to me, that says this knife's capable of splitting firewood" I'd paraphrase that as, "pretty much says to me it can split firewood" That's a bit different than what you say.
He praises the design of the mora black and constantly reminds you how good it is despite being a rat tail.

He actually does well in the video to tell you to beware of the dangers in batoning a non full tang knife. He also pointed out things like unnecessary baton force, cutting angle and stress for wood, working around knots, and options for wood processing that don't involve your knife at all. He also speaks about how to gauge your workload to what the design of your knife can take.

Burncycle said:
I like the wedge use, seems like a good way to save the blade
I've heard that if you keep the handle portion at the same level or slightly above the tip of the blade when batoning it puts less stress on the blade, but I don't remember from where. Is this true, or does it not matter?
Click to expand...

It is a nice trick; also doesn't seem time consuming to make a nice 5" wedge on site. I'm not sure if the knife angle matters too much. My guess is that it's more important to move the strike to somewhere solid. Dave says avoid the handle (rightfully so with a rat tang knfie) but with a full tang I'd bet the tip would snap first. Of course this all depends on what knife.

Thomas Linton said:
Daniel Carter Beard wrote a book in the 1920's that included instructions on splitting small wood with a "jackknife." He was born in 1850. He did stress avoiding prying with the knife.
Click to expand...

Yep, just as Canterbury mentioned, batoning is nothing new. We use rubber mallets all the time when we don't want to break the part/tool; it makes sense that we can use a wooden mallet to hit steel.
With any piece of equipment, you have to gauge the stress to what the part can take. You don't take a family sedan offroading, you don't go ham on a less beefy knife.
 
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Thomas Linton said:
Daniel Carter Beard wrote a book in the 1920's that included instructions on splitting small wood with a "jackknife." He was born in 1850. He did stress avoiding prying with the knife.
Click to expand...

Free HTML ebook here: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/44215/44215-h/44215-h.htm

Here is the section:

"How to Split with a Jack-knife
Fig. 40 shows the proper way to use the knife in splitting a stick, so that it will not strain the spring at the back of the[44] handle of the knife, and at the same time it will help you guide the knife blade and tend to make a straight split. Do not try to pry the stick apart with a knife or you will sooner or later break the blade, a serious thing for a wilderness man to do, for it leaves him without one of the most useful tools."

Fig. 40
RffLC06.png


Dave's yet again misquoting history. 1920's ad's call it sticking aka whittling. Here's one of the first ad's from 1934 mentioning the topic more specifically. Note the expert knife. :D
Ad here:
http://i.imgur.com/qnUZAly.jpg

I enjoy his enthusiasm, just not fond of his lack of research.

It came from other enthusiasts whom had a passion for primitive cultures and the outdoors. I can appreciate that, but you read that whole book in the 1920's they knew a lot less than they thought about native peoples in america. A wealth of knowledge cast aside for the eskimo bow drill. The shavings idea was an effort to get boy scouts to be able to light fires without the need for paper. Plus was that they were trying to teach sticking to younger generations to keep the tradition alive, and the waste wood shavings now had a novel yet practical purpose. Not meant to be the best or only way, just one way to make the most out of every action in the woods, and that there is no such thing as waste in nature. Granted the natives lasted more than 10,000 years here without a jack-knife for wood shavings.
 
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abo4ster said:
This might be appropriate for this thread. Something I wrote about sharing knowledge and the skill level of those that do...

http://masterwoodsman.com/2015/promoting-outdoor-living-skills/
Click to expand...

Had a quick glance, looks like an interesting read. I'll read more later.

B34NS said:
Dave's yet again misquoting history. 1920's ad's call it sticking aka whittling. Here's one of the first ad's from 1934 mentioning the topic more specifically. Note the expert knife. :D
Ad here:
http://i.imgur.com/qnUZAly.jpg

I enjoy his enthusiasm, just not fond of his lack of research.
Click to expand...

I guess he is technically misquoting "splitting" with "sticking" or "whittling", but the Daniel Carter book wasn't mentioned by DC.
He did use the Marble's ads in the beginning of the video though. He might have meant something like this one.
$T2eC16Z,!zcE9s4g3Kn0BRUgo7RUDw~~60_57.JPG
 
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