Viking one handed axe dimensions??

T

Tin.Man

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Sep 5, 2010
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im looking real hard at making a Petersen type L Nordic axes. Going for a 3” blade length as they are mentioned to have a 2.75”-4” blade length, where I am falling short is the overall length of the head(not the haft!) from day poll to edge? I want this to be as historically accurate as I can get with some modern flair.

Hoping one of you axe nuts can help me, I appreciate it immensely.
 
If you have some drawings/photographs of the desired shape(as i assume you do),and you have the length of the edge,you can draw a grid,with other dimensions proportionate to that known one of edge.
That will give you the Elevation.

You'll face a more difficult challenge in Plan view.What made these axes special is the blade convergence angle,and especially critical-the mass right in front of eye.

I'm not sure what you mean by "make",but if planning to reduce,to machine it out of an existing axe,you'll have a tough time finding a suitable donor.

But,best of luck.
 
I appreciate the help! The plan is to waterjet a full tang version roughly 3/8” thick then taper the tang so the end of the handle is closer to 1/8” then add g10/ micarta scales so hopefully it has similar balance.

What do you mean by convergence angle? I’ve been reading up on this subject for so long but there really isn’t a lot out there.
 
Well....I don't know what to say,frankly: a 2D 3/8" thick version will not give you Any of the qualities/balance/feel of that particular tool.

I don't want to be a snob,but that's just how it is,a axe is a 3D kinda critter...

By "convergence angle" i mean looking down on the tool from above,into the opening of the eye,the angle of the entire working end of the tool,the way the two sides come together.

Such axes were a pretty fine woodworking tool,there's a number of good,quality reproductions/recreations among those Northern Europeans that build "drakkars",for example,and other like-minded folks...
Try looking up something like "building a viking ship"(i'm poor at internet search myself),but something will pop up with some tools.
You'll see a number of L's,and K's and H's et c.,they were all shipbuilding axes....
 
Here's Eric McHugh's recreation of an L-ish type(he calls it a G/H hybrid:).Eric is an excellent smith,and a very informed individual,and has my deepest respect and admiration(in spite of my being in total opposition to attributing this type of tools as "weapons").
https://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?/topic/32824-viking-axe-wip/

This here too has a bit of info:http://sagy.vikingove.cz/tag/petersen-type-m/
(and Again it's by proponents of "weapon" theory...goofy,i say,but here we have it...:(

And(finally!) a link that demonstrates what motivated and dictated the design of these axes:http://traditionalcraftsblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/building-worlds-most-iconic-viking-ship_15.html

If one observes carefully the very front of the eye,you'll see how fat it is there...it's not entirely that common,and makes it a b..tch to forge...These axes were forged very skillfully and Very deliberately.
 
Tin.Man said:
It’s far from perfect but there are so many subtleties to the design as I’m learning
Click to expand...

You're doing Great.Wish that i had the stick-with-it-ness to diagram design so neatly....

The important thing to keep in mind is that these shapes are Anything but random.
These lines add up to cumulative experience accrued by generations of skilled labor,both forging and woodworking.(Indeed those fantastically-beautiful,hydro-dynamic shapes of various viking-age ships come from the way these axes Work,directly).

Remember that this very form has started out as a turd-shaped lump of iron(called "asmund" in Swedish as i learned just yesterday),and that it was carefully formed into what we see in a finished object.
Not cut,or spliced,but gently and gradually reshaped,molded.That also has a lot of bearing on the shape.

I'm fairly regularly humbled by these shapes,in spite of all the hot air i may blow...:(
Couple years ago i had to approximate something similar,but a more modern version by Steffen Rohnnquist...I did So poorly that i even surprised myself...And i tried twice,blowing it both times!
So,"Learning" is the key-word for all of us here...

In these photos the first two are my attempts,in the third-two of Rohnnquist's originals and mine on the right...I wasn't even close!:)
https://imgur.com/a/hECh1

So,again,the best of luck!
 
I think that’s what has always drawn me to axes.

A war hammer is fearsome but a terrible actual hammer around the house, a long sword is beautiful and elegant weapon, however it’s a poor machete or kitchen knife, but the humble axe blends the line of weapon and tool so well.

Jake you should see my notebook, we are talking 100’s of drawings and I will draw one the same over and over again, just altering tiny little features to A get it close to the original pattern but B make it my own as well otherwise I’d just trace it and be done with it.

I understand a lot of the functions, but at the end of the day it chops and cuts right? More of a crested tip and it can thrust, more beard it can hook, more belly in the edge it slices and carves better etc. A lot of the Viking axes like you said were boat building tools that were used as weapons. I want to make something that is bomb proof and has some sexy lines, but when someone sees it or picks it up they are immediately reminded of a tool and a weapon from a people who relied so heavily on it.
 
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Tin.Man said:
Jake you should see my notebook, we are talking 100’s of drawings and I will draw one the same over and over again, just altering tiny little features to A get it close to the original pattern but B make it my own as well otherwise I’d just trace it and be done with it.
Click to expand...

That's an excellent skill And habit,very constructive.
I know some craftsmen who were educated long ago,in far away,very old-fashioned places,and were required to take all sorts of drawing and painting classes for that very reason.
They had to do a full-color 3D watercolor sketch before beginning of a project,so that one could Really "see" what the finished object would look like.
Combined with all other preliminary drawings and sketches,it was tacked on the wall of their work-space.It was beautiful work,all those graphics,in and of itself,and i always thought that that was really,really neat surroundings to be working in... .
 
Update to the design, bit has a lot less belly, still enough to aid in slicing and better penetration then a flat edge.
34EDC976-8265-47FB-B5F4-A2EF4D1741E8.jpeg
 
C0B7E66F-B01A-4699-9369-30D8CF138078.jpeg Jake this is a small sample, but gives you an idea. Bit length and curve stay the same as well as hammer poll curves etc only the overall length of the axe head is changing. Top is 5.5” overall
Middle 5.25”
Bottom 5”

If anyone reading this thread would care to weigh in on which length you like the best I would greatly appreciate it!
 
Tin.Man said:
Bit length and curve stay the same as well as hammer poll
Click to expand...

Tin.Man,i think that most of the axes of this general shape were poll-less...But then again,both slit%drifted and wrapped eyes(in which case the poll would be minimal)were present,it's just a matter of how accurate you'd want to get to a specific Axe.
(like has been said before,Petersen's typology is only about Norwegian axes,and is Very general).
I'd try to copy an actual specific tool,vs trying to derive a median from several whose likeness may be artificial(they may've been made for different chores,and in reality,as tools,differed very significantly).

Also,i'd fill in the outline of the plan in dark color.Iron is very difficult to represent graphically,hard to explain,but an outline of an axe and the real object look very different(you can try this by outlining the existent head you may have around).
 
These axes are from the famous sacrifice bogs at Nydam Mose,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nydam_Mose#/media/File:Nydammose.12.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nydam_Mose

But,these are from about 2-nd to 4th c.c. AD,quite a bit earlier then the "viking" Age (7th to 11th c.c. AD)axes in Norway described by Petersen.
If you look carefully you'll see a very great amount of variation....
Another detail is that we really not sure what these looked like on the outside...Just how finished were they?...

And,lastly,nowadays the "perfection" so to speak of the methods available to us may actually be a detriment.I've seen a set of very old sword fittings being reproduced(photos,not in real life,alas).The author had access to a 3D printer and used it most skillfully,to produce casting patterns.Did a wonderful,most precise job,and in the end it looked nothing like the originals....Very old work is asymmetrical and irregular in funny little subtle ways...It's easy to overlook just how much it changes the appearance of an object...
 
Jake your dead on right. It’s funny the more precise I try and draw these the less they look like the originals. Good to remember they literally beat these to shape and more than likely looked at it and went yepp looks good to me.

I’m more posting these in hopes of getting feed back that yes they remind people of Norse/Viking designs or no my 2d drawing skills make them look like turds on handles ;)

Jake I appreciate all the links by the way, nice to know I’m not the only weirdo obsessed with this stuff.

Also edit to add less of a poll but the designs and originals that have been dug up definitely look like a poll was there whether that was an intention of the forging or a by product who knows but a little half inch nub looks good, when I take it away it takes away from the flow I feel
 
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