Villager / Polished mirror finish

[Astrodada]

I do not own a villager yet but my polished HI blades came not too sharp.
I have heard that villagers are generally sharp out of the box.

I have also heard that sometimes the blades have higher heat (lost of some carbon) before the hardenning thus resulting in a softer outter layer ,which after repeated sharpenning , will become harder since the softer metal is grinded away. But how come that is not the case for most villagers ? If they are heated the same way, outter layer of metal of the villagers shall be soft like the polished ones as well.

I think maybe the Kamis know this and deliberately heat the blades ,that are going to be mirror polished, to a higher temperature thus facilitates easier polishing ?

Polishing hard metal is a lot of work.

 

[Yvsa]

I think maybe the Kamis know this and deliberately heat the blades ,that are going to be mirror polished, to a higher temperature thus facilitates easier polishing ?

Not so Astro. There is a critical temperature that determines how hard a blade will be when finished.
The theory is that the highly polished khuks are subjected to higher heat than needed for tempering when polished due to the friction between the buffing wheel and the steel.
You might say the steel is "burnt" along the thinner edges and therefore loses its hardness.
"Burning" hardened steel means that it is discolored because of too much heat. The colors range from a very light straw color, permitted, to a dark blue which means the steel has softened.
I'm not sure I accept the theory because it would mean the blade would actually get too hot to hold onto the buffing wheel bare handed.
Dipping the steel in water frequently effectively cools it off to keep it from burning.
That's what Sarge and us other guys do when grinding hardened steel such as files to make knives.
When the knife is finished it is put into an oven with a controlled heat from 350* to 450* for an hour to bring it to the desired straw color which gives most steel its optimum temper.

 

[Mindz_I]

Sorry for the slight thread-hijack but after a search on 'villagers' I'm a little confused as to what this term means in relation the HI khuks?

The HI site states the following:

These are khukuris made for local use in Nepal for chopping, digging, hammering and the many other uses required for rural living. They are roughly finished but incredibly tough. They are made by village kamis who recycle leaf springs, pieces of railroad rail, and other steel that will forge into an incredibly strong blade. They will vary greatly in style and size as can be seen in the pictures of typical examples below.

Thes early 'villager' models sold by Himalayan Imports were not made by BirGorkha, and had a guarantee on blades, but not handles . Many of more recent 'villagers' are made by BirGorkha kamis in the style of khukuris used locally.

I guess what I'm curious of is what exactly are the modern Villagers and how do they differ to the 'premier' HI line?

The pics I've seen don't exactly look unfinished (though less of a mirror-polish, more of a satin kinda look), though the bolsters seem to be in a white metal (though this seems to differ) and the ones I've recently seen have been by HI Kamis rather than the village Kamis.

Does the guarantee still exclude the handle?

Cheers for any help (hoping this discussion does actually help with this thread's original topic to ).

 

[jamesraykenney]

<snip>

I'm not sure I accept the theory because it would mean the blade would actually get too hot to hold onto the buffing wheel bare handed.
Dipping the steel in water frequently effectively cools it off to keep it from burning.

<snip>

I think that it might be possible, because of the enormous heat sink that the rest of the blade represents... When polishing most of the blade, there would not be any heat build up, but the edge would be able to heat up locally, because it is thinner, and takes more time for the heat to leave it...
Though, I always thought that the reason for it being less sharp, was because they sometimes hit the edges of the blades on the polishing wheels at such an angle so as to dull them rather than further refine the edge and so actually sharpen it further...
A polishing wheel is one of the best things you can use to REALLY sharpen a knife(and also THE most dangerous). But hit it at the wrong angle, and you can dull a blade very quickly...

I have a big hunting knife made out of some kind of Japanese steel, that I managed to burn the tip of(on a grinder), but that MAY have been for the best, because the reason, that I had it on the grinder, was because the very tip had been broken off(maybe 1/8" or so) and softening it up a bit may have been a good idea... I went to the grinder, because even my diamond stones were taking FOREVER to get that little 1/8" chip out!!!
That was some HARD steel!!!

 

[Steely_Gunz]

Sorry for the slight thread-hijack but after a search on 'villagers' I'm a little confused as to what this term means in relation the HI khuks?

The HI site states the following:



I guess what I'm curious of is what exactly are the modern Villagers and how do they differ to the 'premier' HI line?

The pics I've seen don't exactly look unfinished (though less of a mirror-polish, more of a satin kinda look), though the bolsters seem to be in a white metal (though this seems to differ) and the ones I've recently seen have been by HI Kamis rather than the village Kamis.

Does the guarantee still exclude the handle?

Cheers for any help (hoping this discussion does actually help with this thread's original topic to ).

HI used to buy khuks of good quality and sell them as villager khuks years ago. They would warranty the blades but not the handles for life. HOWEVER, most "villager" khuks are now turned out by HI's Kamis. The only difference in a HI village and a standard HI is the level of polish (satin vs mirror) and the engravings are in their native letters, not english. The warranty is still the same lifetime warranty as other HI knives. I LOVE villager models myself

Jake

 

[ric0shay]

I have heard the theory of the steel being softer closer to the surface too...hmmm, there is so much that I don't know dang it! (especially 5130). I think the variance is with the individual Kamis. I have both villagers and standard HI models, both need a little edge dressing before being servicable IMHO.

I do have a tiny bit of straw coloring at the tip of my roughly finished villager BGRS (appx 3/16th")

Rick

 

[Bri in Chi]

Surface de-carberization is the effect of heat burning off the surface carbon in the forge. This leaves a thin, softer layer of low-carbon steel on the surface. Usually the final finishing removes this layer, or at least most of it.

 

[Mindz_I]

HI used to buy khuks of good quality and sell them as villager khuks years ago. They would warranty the blades but not the handles for life. HOWEVER, most "villager" khuks are not turned out by HI's Kamis. The only difference in a HI village and a standard HI is the level of polish (satin vs mirror) and the engravings are in their native letters, not english. The warranty is still the same lifetime warranty as other HI knives. I LOVE villager models myself

Jake

Thanks my good man, that explains it perfectly

 

[Daniel Koster]

seems like there is some confusion here. I'll put on the table what I know...


Decarbed steel = when a thin layer of steel loses carbon, due to oxidation in the forge, or heating too hot (over 1800+) too long.

Blurred steel = the result of heavy buffing. the surface of the steel reacts to the friction created by the buffing wheel and compound, causing it to "blur" (some say "slur", same thing)

Burned steel = overheating of the steel past its temper after its been hardened (quenched). You don't remove any carbon when you do this, you only reduce hardness. Happens when you hold the steel on the grinder too long. Makes pretty colors. If it shows up on "both sides" then you've srewed the temper. If it only shows up on one side (while grinding) then you've only biffed that surface (who knows how deep....?) so you can sometimes just keep grinding. Steel temperatures are rarely uniform...only under well controlled conditions.


observation = villager khuks come sharpen than polished khuks

these are the reasons I have been able to ascertain...

1 - the kamis "roll" the edges when buffing. To put the edge back on would require going to a lower grit, which would add scratches, which would need buffing, which would require resharpening.......see where I'm going with this?

2 - the kamis consider the buffed khuks "show khuks", and the villagers "work khuks". despite the fact that we regularly test our "pretty ones"...

3 - some knife owner don't want sharp knives. the kamis know about our "safety thread" and have seen the pics. they probably think we go around cutting ourselves all the time and figure that if we want a sharp khuk, we'll just sharpen it ourselves. no incentive to go back and sharpen after buffing. If all khuks came razor sharp, there would probably be more accidents...especially with newbies.

4 - when I posited the idea that the kamis might be overbuffing the blades...it was a response to the fact that sometimes the knife gets "sharper with use". Which, imho, would result from one of two sources: over-buffed/slurred steel that gets "wiped off".....and/or burr not being removed properly. Buffing gets rid of the burr, so #2 is out.



hope this helps. maybe others more experienced could contribute.

 

[Bri in Chi]

Thanks Dan, that really puts it in a nutshell. That makes perfect sense to m.

 

[M. Taylor]

Hey Dan, nice knives. Reasonably priced too.

 

[Mindz_I]

Out of curiosity can one order a villager model just as you'd order a polished model?

 

[Daniel Koster]

just drop Yangdu a mail and she'll have it done.


"Special orders" are different than "Special requests"


I think we wore her out with the Fox Folly....but as far as I know....requesting a specific khukuri is not a problem.