Villagers & Himalayan imports Khukuri's?

Yvsa

Yvsa

Joined
May 18, 1999
Messages
15,395
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I noticed where Uncle Bill said that Ray C. may have one of the best villager collections in the US of A. So this is a question(s) for Ray and Uncle Bill and whomever else would like to voice there opinion and some things I have noticed or wondered about.

From what I have observed it seems to me that most of the villagers are a tad softer than the HI current offerings. (Then there is the Ugly Villager that Cliff Stamp had that beat
everything!!)
This isn't necessarily, (I always have trouble spelling that word),a bad thing as a knife that runs 56-57 Rc is usually tougher than those running 60-61 Rc and less apt to chip. It will go dull sooner of course, but you don't need fancy hones to sharpen it either, even an old file will work most times. And depending on what is being cut, just how much sooner does it go dull? And is the hassle of resharpening a harder knife worth it?

And in my opinion anything less than 55 Rc can be used, but with care and even more resharpeming. It may be a fine hair to split, but I feel anything under 56 Rc just isn't worth my time. What about the rest of y'all? I believe that all the village models I have from HI are at least 56 Rc and usually between 56 & 57 Rc and occasionally 58 Rc. What's been your experience?

I am wondering if most of the village khukuris are done that way on purpose as it would be inconvienient for a Nepali Farmer to run back to the house everytime a knife chipped beyond use where the softer blade could be worked out with a chakma or worked over with a piece of stone found in the field.

I prefer my HI blades to be in the 60-61 Rc range because of the longer edge retention, but then I don't use them 1/100 as hard as they're designed for.
I wonder just how much really hard wood would need to be cut in a survival situation? I know most of any shelters I would make would be of willow or other soft wood because it would only be needed for a short time.
About the only hard wood that I would need to cut would be for spears and maybe a bow.
How about y'all?

I know the villagers are popular with all of us. Is it because they portray the Spirit of Nepal and thier makers, or is it because they're cheap or perhaps both?

What's been y'alls experience with the village models compared to the HI models and is there a difference in how you treat the blades?

Just some mad ramblins of a wild ndn that's done been away from his shop too Dayum-ed Long!!!
biggrin.gif


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>>>>---¥vsa---->®

"There's no trick in being a humorist when you have the whole government working for you."

...............Will Rogers......

Khukuri FAQ
 
I remember a story Ray told me that maybe he can embellish upon if he has not forgotten. He was clearing some weeds that had grown into a chain link fence with one of his khukuris which were all villagers at that time. He missed his mark and put a foot long gash in the fence -- no damage to the khukuri. And he has more stories.

In the outback of Nepal the khukuris will vary in hardness just as they do when we get them here. They are generally on the harder side rather than softer but not always.



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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
Himalayan Imports Archives (18,000+ posts)
 
I only have one village khukuri so don't have a good comparison. I imagine a farmer would have a difficult time sharpening a harder khukuri (Rc 58 and up). He might not have access to ceramic,diamond or even India stones.


Will
 
When we were sorting out some problems with my 20" HI Sirupati, Bill sent me a similar villager to examine. I had it for only a couple of weeks, but had a chance to check most of its qualities pretty well. It was darn hard...squeaky when you ran a file over it, and took a wicked and durable cutting edge with a ceramic stone. Except for being a bit thinner in the blade, and not as well polished, and of course with an inferior karda and chakma, it was as good as the two HI's I now possess. No one thinking about a villager for use/abuse should worry. Pretty they are not...but tough they are (as Yoda would say)
biggrin.gif


Ken

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The sword cannot cut itself, the eye cannot see itself.
 
Hi All,
As most here know, I have a "thing" for small villagers. The blade hardness is all over from about Rc55 to Rc60+. If I was faced with a potential (75% or more) for serious survival work, I would opt for a blade of Rc50 to Rc56. A sharp edge can mean the difference...... And there probably wouldn't be time to futz around sharpening blades. That is one reason some other forms of knives are in this hardness range.
Dan

Yah, I know that I ran off at the mouth about this matter at the gathering last weekend.
 
During the Khukuri Konvention, I picked up my first villager. The Khukuri wasn't a normal H.I. product and so I didn't expect much. This blade is about 16.5" long and had a pleasing curve. The bolster, butcap were made of steel, and covered with some rust. The blade has some rust and alot of grind marks. Something about this Khukuri drew me to it though. When I got home I cleaned it up and strated to polish the blade, bolster and butt cap. I also applied multiple coats of lin seed oil after some sanding to the handle. This Khukuri looks alot better now! I decided to chop some wood with it and I hit a nail in the wood. That section did dent, but not chip. Not as hard as the standard H.I. blades, but still very, very serviceable for yard clean up and last ditch defensive tool! Thanks again Uncle for the great weekend!
 
I don't any villagers ,yet, but how about blems? I've got an AK blem that's been beat up quite a bit - tip, blade, etc. - and it just keeps on cutting whenever needed.
 
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Don't get me wrong. I Love the village models, just wanted some input from others that have had more experience with them than I have.
And as Dan K has stated, the softer blades really do have thier purpose. It's just a personal preference of mine for the harder blades. In other times or places my thinking may be different.

I bought a 17" steel furnished villager from Uncle Bill just before we left for vacation and haven't had a chance to really try it out. I like it so well that I brought it along instead of my 18th Century. When we got to Reno and the HI Headquarters I bought a smaller version,13"-14" of it with brass furniture instead of the steel. Cute little knife that looks sorta like Lance's old AK without the fullers and engraving. I am really looking forward to checking them both out.

I am thinking that most of my future khukuri buying will be in the villagers except for the little HI 15" Sirupati I have on order and then of course the Yvsa Cherokke Specials And then possibly the Tin Chiarra based on one of John Powell's antique models. And then.....
smile.gif
Surely Y'all believe me now don't cha?(VBEG)


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>>>>---¥vsa---->®

"There's no trick in being a humorist when you have the whole government working for you."

...............Will Rogers......

Khukuri FAQ
 
Hello Yvsa
I never thought twice about a villager,because that was; all there was.I didnot know Bill well enough to take his word on the toughness of these khukuris(had so many bad ones before I met Bill),so every one that came to me under went the right of passage.At that time I had a wood burning stove in the living room(kinda rustic like a hunting lodge)and a 10" diameter Black Olive stump about 14" high,next to it.I would take every khukuri over to that stump and beat the blade on all four sides,untill I was good and ready to stop.Then I would check the blade edge,tip and conection to the handle,for the smallest problem.There was none.I didnot know how hard the edge was and as long as the darn thing did it's job with out ever failing me,I never gave it a thought.Every time I used one,it made a believer out of me,the rugged durablite,the carefree,trouble free use of a blade you did not have to baby.I never worried about what I was hitting,or what enviroment I was taking these khukuris in to.
I was using a knife made by a Nepali Kami,who's family had been making khukuris for over two hundred years,made in the same way as then.That is what started it all for me.All of you have used one now you must know just what I'm talking about.
Bill
Yes I do remember chopping up my fence,with a 16.5" AK 7/16 thick.Still have it(the knife that is ).

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Ray

[This message has been edited by RayC (edited 09-02-2000).]

[This message has been edited by RayC (edited 09-02-2000).]
 
Thanks, Ray. I remembered those tests but I thought I'd let you tell the story since you were and ARE the one doing the testing.

There are not many men I know who use a knife harder than Ray or who loves them more.

And, I'll add this. What he says you can also take to the bank.

I think this old forward observer now owns about 50 HI khukuris. How far am I off, brother? You have been buying (and selling!) HI khukuris for almost a dozen years and that is a long time for this old memory to reach back.

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
Himalayan Imports Archives (18,000+ posts)
 
Preferred level of hardness? For me, it's quite simple. A hard blade will chip where a soft one merely distorts. A chipped blade is usually unsatisfactory, often useless; a distorted blade can usually be fixed, with a hammer, or a stone, or both.

I don't usually do this to khukuris, but... When I make a sword, one of the tests it has to pass in order to stay out of the scrap pile is cutting 16ga steel plate without chipping the edge, and flexing 8" from the point without distorting when held in the bench vise. Since I started drawing the temper of my sword-blades to middle/light blue, they've all passed.

Of course, softer blades have to be sharpened; big deal. Sharpen *carefully*, sharpen *often*, and the softer, springier blade will be your friend and cut for you in conditions that'd convert your 60+ Rc edge into a poor man's saw, or even two useless pieces of steel scrap.

As regards khukuris; one of my HI khuks (a 20" full-tang sirupati by Kumar) (a) lost its tip with the first cut it made (b)got notched an inch from the tip by a hidden stone, and is now permanently off the active list. My other khuks, both HI and village, have encountered plenty of stones, nails and other menaces, and (after minor first aid) survived intact. This ability to withstand accidental damage without notching or chipping is, IMHO, the main reason why I own and use khukuris, and it's a very great tribute to the skill and practicality of the men who make them.

Any fool can harden a blade; it takes a craftsman to temper one...
 
My little experience with knives will not do me right if I prefer this to that. So I decided to follow the two advices from experts.

One from metallurgist pal: A good blade stell will be tough under 60 RC, not compensating its toughness. Every HI khukuri is quite trustworthy from this point of view.
I can take any HI.

Two from an adventurer who trekked all along the "Silk Road". He often saw very "poor" knives in deep deserty Asian area along the trek. They are dead soft, seemed even without hardening process. He knew he could tell something to the smiths there, but when he did a right heat treating on a blade as an experiment, he found out there were no hone to sharpen it! He softened the blade to give it back to the smith with apology. This story will apply for us in daily or survival situation. Decide the hardness on hone availability.
In daily, we can get finest stones even diamonds on it, while some of Nepali villagers are not so lucked as we are...



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Did you enjoy today?
\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
 
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I have only experienced one chipping problem with one of the hard HI khukuri's and that was my fault. I was useing a chopping twisting motion in an extremely hard wood that's known for its ability to destroy knives, axes, chainsaws or any edged tool that comes in contact with it.
Although the knife chipped, it was still very serviceable along the rest of the edge.

Like I said before and as several others has said as well, "The softer blades have thier place."
And with a softer blade,I would never have tried chopping this material at all, or if I had, I would have been Very Careful in my technique.

Sometimes I forget that the less advantaged have other ways of doing things like the "Magic Stone Strop."
It may take a while, but would most certainly do the job.
And when a person grows up with a tool in thier hand thier technique is learned at an early age.
I would bet that any Nepali useing the same knife I was wouldn't have chipped it out.


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>>>>---¥vsa---->®

"There's no trick in being a humorist when you have the whole government working for you."

...............Will Rogers......

Khukuri FAQ
 
As most know I am lazy when it comes to sharpening and the harder the edge the less I have to sharpen. But I know what I can do with this hard edge and what I can't -- but just like Yvsa we sometimes push the limits or get careless -- or both! And we always pay the price when we do.

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
Himalayan Imports Archives (18,000+ posts)
 
:
I have come to believe that the hardening technique the kamis use is what makes the harder blades so dayum-ed tough as well. I may be wrong, but I am associateing thier technique as a sort of case hardening, with the outside of the edge extremely hard with a slightly softer core underneath.
That way you get the best of both worlds!!
Even when I ground the chip out the blade was still plenty hard enough for any kind of work that was needed to be done!!
That's where I got the theory from, anyway it works for me.
cool.gif



------------------
>>>>---¥vsa---->®

"There's no trick in being a humorist when you have the whole government working for you."

...............Will Rogers......

Khukuri FAQ
 
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