Vinegar Patina on Old Marbles

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snowplow

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May 16, 2014
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Hey dudes, first post here. I have been googling about the vinegar patina and was always directed to this site. So I just joined.

Anyhow I have a very old Marbles Woodcraft with stacked leather handle. It is a well used hunting knife and has a beautiful machine metal gray finish to the blade. I love it. And I also have noticed that it might as well be stainless because I never have to worry about it.

I also have a 2000ish Marble's Ideal that was put together by A.G. Russell out of old stock found at the marbles factory. So it is an original old blade made out of the original 52100 steel. Only it looks brand new. However, it is UNBELIEVABLY touchy and will start to stain/rust if you look at it funny.

Both are hunting knives of mine. I am not thinking both for asthetics and function to do (newly discovered to me) a vinegar patina. It sounds like I should be able to match that beautiful old marbles of mine and help with corrosion resistance too. But I have a couple of questions:

1. Is this blasphemy? This isn't my knife, but this is my knife: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?242738-WTS-Marbles-Ideal-8-quot

2. Should I disassemble it to just dip the blade? or have you guys had good success by doing it in one piece?

3. If I disassemble, is it one of those things that is a nightmare and should be avoided at all cost?

Thanks for the help and awesome forum!
 
Disassembly would be pretty easy. Reassembly would be a nightmare.
I would leave the knife alone, but give it proper care. A little oil goes a long way to prevent rust.
 
I'd leave the old blade as-is. On the newer one, I wouldn't call it blasphemy - just making it more suitable to use. Some disagree.

Vinegar is often used to remove old patina/tarnish from brass and copper - shouldn't hurt it, but may change the appearance.

Rather than dipping, I'd clean the blade with denatured alcohol, then soak a paper towel in the vinegar and wrap the blade in it. Usually takes about 10 minutes for a dark gray finish. Then buff it out with scotch-brite or very fine steel wool.
Paper towels with coarse texture do oftentimes transfer some of the texture to the patina - but it can be evened out with elbow grease or time.

Or, if you're worried about it, just cut some acidic fruits (citrus, tomatoes, avocado, even apples,) or hot cooked meats, and let it rest a bit before cleaning off. Those darken it up in short order, too, and you didn't "force" anything - just used it.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.
 
Mike Stewart used 52100 when he was at Marble's, I believe, and mine have all taken on a nice grey patina just through use. And they will rust readily, as you note. I wipe mine down with BreakFree and that has kept rust at bay. After Mike left Marble's, the company transitioned to 50100B (a.k.a. Carbon V), another very good cutlery steel, and I believe they are still using it. The original Marble's were 1095, I have read, and were die-forged. I looked at one old Marble's at a second-hand shop in Denver, and would have bought it, except instead of $3 as I thought, the tab said $300. In any case, your Marble's is a beauty.
 
Haha, thats funny Ed. I had that same thing happen to me at the antique store here.

Good idea on the paper towel TJ. After you soak it do you need to use something to neutralize the acidity?

What do you guys treat the handles with? My leather is getting pretty dry on the old knife.
 
That makes sense because it would be impossible to get out and just continue to corrode right?
 
snowplow said:
Haha, thats funny Ed. I had that same thing happen to me at the antique store here.

Good idea on the paper towel TJ. After you soak it do you need to use something to neutralize the acidity?

What do you guys treat the handles with? My leather is getting pretty dry on the old knife.
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Baking soda works for this. It's slightly alkaline, and will stop the acidic reaction. Make a paste of it with some water, and scrub the blade with it. It's gentle abrasiveness is also useful to scrub away loosely-bound oxide (both black and red rust). Keep scrubbing until the baking soda no longer shows any black/brown/red discoloration, then rinse the whole knife thoroughly in running water.


David
 
I just realized I have a bright shiny aluminum pommel. Do any of you fella's know how to dull that down a bit?
 
snowplow said:
I just realized I have a bright shiny aluminum pommel. Do any of you fella's know how to dull that down a bit?
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Rubbing with a green Scotch-Brite pad should work. It's an easy way to put a 'satin' finish on most metals, and the softer metals are that much easier.

Just handling and/or using it for a while will tend to flatten or dull the shine on aluminum pommels as well. If it were mine, I'd likely try that first. I've noticed, with the aluminum-pommelled knives I've got, they'll always dull up anyway with some handling, whether I wanted them to or not. ;) The possible exception to this is if the pommel has a coating on it (some new knives come this way), which will resist dulling and/or scratching. If that's the case, those coatings can be sanded off with some wet/dry sandpaper; anything from about 400-1000 grit will leave varying degrees of a satin finish.


David
 
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Thanks David. I think I mis-spoke. It is kind of dull now from use. But Is there a way to darken it just a bit like the blade? I am crazy about the look of a well taken care of aged marbles knife.
 
snowplow said:
Thanks David. I think I mis-spoke. It is kind of dull now from use. But Is there a way to darken it just a bit like the blade? I am crazy about the look of a well taken care of aged marbles knife.
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I've never tried it, but you might try the vinegar for that. Most metals will oxidize or patinate in contact with acids, so I'd think it might work. Might just apply it very lightly at first, to see how aggressive it might be. Just wiping it on with a Q-tip or similar might show you enough of how it'll work. If it does oxidize, I've no idea what color/tone it might take. Shouldn't be any harm in doing it; if you don't like how it turns out, just polish it again with some metal polish.

As with patinating most metals, sanding the aluminum to a slightly coarser finish (like a very fine 'satin'), before using the vinegar, might make it work more aggressively. Sometimes a high-polish finish will resist it, and the process may be slower. Using a heated mix of vinegar, with or without some water, should also speed it up (by 'dipping' into the heated solution). As I mentioned earlier, baking soda will halt the acidic reaction when you're done with the vinegar, before you clean it up.

Edit:
I seem to recall some of my aluminum kitchenware darkening when heated and exposed to water/acids/salts, such as with an aluminum saucepan on the stovetop.


David
 
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