W2 v 52100 v CruForgeV

[Jrmysell]

Looking through past threads I can’t quite find direct comparisons. The W2 would be Aldo W2 as that’s what I have/can get rather than Don’s better stock. From what I can tell w2 is for hamon but probably lowest wear resistance? But best toughness? 52100 in between on both? And CFV best wear resistance and lowest toughness?

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Just pick one that fits your needs and use it. Keep using that steel until you have mastered it.

 

[imill3567]

According to Larrins testing toughness goes 52100, cruforge V, then W2. W2 isn't on the chart just going off similar steels that are. Edge retention they are all close enough to not really matter.

 

[DevinT]

52100 is best

Hoss

 

[shqxk]

According to Cedric and Ada's rope cutting test, W2 has the best edge holding among low alloy carbon steels. Actually, the average performance in the test is even better than many high alloy steel including, S110V, M4, K390, M390 and Magnacut.

Cedric and Ada Steel Comparison Ratings

Graphs @dropdown 413 edge retention tests with 112 different materials 261 knives from 100 makers 121 Worksharp edges (20 degree) 115 KME edges 68 Factory edges 109 other edges (Tormek, Edge Pro, stones, or sharpened by others)

docs.google.com

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

A lot will depend on your HT equipment and methods. 52100 needs a proper oven HT. W2 and CruforgeV can be forge Hted.

 

[Jrmysell]

I’ve got all the HT setup, just missing a tester to fine tune everything. Have oven, plates, parks 50, AAA, LN. so HT isn’t a concern. Just trying to see which was more worth going after, I’m planning on doing W2 for sure just for the hamons.

 

[imill3567]

According to Cedric and Ada's rope cutting test, W2 has the best edge holding among low alloy carbon steels. Actually, the average performance in the test is even better than many high alloy steel including, S110V, M4, K390, M390 and Magnacut.

Cedric and Ada Steel Comparison Ratings

Graphs @dropdown 413 edge retention tests with 112 different materials 261 knives from 100 makers 121 Worksharp edges (20 degree) 115 KME edges 68 Factory edges 109 other edges (Tormek, Edge Pro, stones, or sharpened by others)

docs.google.com

There's something wrong with their test if W2 had higher edge retention than those higher carbide volume steels.

 

[Larrin]

Cedric and Ada rope cutting tests are tests of knives not of steels.

 

[TheEdge01]

I’ve got all the HT setup, just missing a tester to fine tune everything. Have oven, plates, parks 50, AAA, LN. so HT isn’t a concern. Just trying to see which was more worth going after, I’m planning on doing W2 for sure just for the hamons.

If I had to pick 1 of those 3, I’d choose 52100. There’s a reason it’s more sought after than W2 or cruforge.

 

[Dominick Maone]

According to Cedric and Ada's rope cutting test, W2 has the best edge holding among low alloy carbon steels. Actually, the average performance in the test is even better than many high alloy steel including, S110V, M4, K390, M390 and Magnacut.

Cedric and Ada Steel Comparison Ratings

Graphs @dropdown 413 edge retention tests with 112 different materials 261 knives from 100 makers 121 Worksharp edges (20 degree) 115 KME edges 68 Factory edges 109 other edges (Tormek, Edge Pro, stones, or sharpened by others)

docs.google.com

W2 seems very out if place in those cutting tests.

 

[nattynarwhal]

According to Cedric and Ada's rope cutting test, W2 has the best edge holding among low alloy carbon steels. Actually, the average performance in the test is even better than many high alloy steel including, S110V, M4, K390, M390 and Magnacut.

Cedric and Ada Steel Comparison Ratings

Graphs @dropdown 413 edge retention tests with 112 different materials 261 knives from 100 makers 121 Worksharp edges (20 degree) 115 KME edges 68 Factory edges 109 other edges (Tormek, Edge Pro, stones, or sharpened by others)

docs.google.com

W2's composition from Zknives of 1.5% carbon and not much else shouldn't be able to beat s110v and k390. There seems to have been only one test being done with the steel so I assume it's from a good maker who ground the knife really thin and pushed the edge to an aggressive angle. Just goes to show you the power of custom knife making and that a good knife has to be a function of good geometry, heat treat and steel. I wouldn't be surprised if a custom using W2 that has all 3 of those attributes out cuts a production knife in M4/M390 that has poor geometry and a poorly optimized heat treat.

 

[shqxk]

W2's composition from Zknives of 1.5% carbon and not much else shouldn't be able to beat s110v and k390. There seems to have been only one test being done with the steel so I assume it's from a good maker who ground the knife really thin and pushed the edge to an aggressive angle. Just goes to show you the power of custom knife making and that a good knife has to be a function of good geometry, heat treat and steel. I wouldn't be surprised if a custom using W2 that has all 3 of those attributes out cuts a production knife in M4/M390 that has poor geometry and a poorly optimized heat treat.

He has videos on every particular knife being tested on youtube, all sharpen to the same angle/grit you can check it out there.

 

[Storm W]

He has videos on every particular knife being tested on youtube, all sharpen to the same angle/grit you can check it out there.

The way the blade is ground makes a huge difference. A knife with a near zero grind will outperform most production knives. One if the problems with all of those YouTube videos is that they use production knives and each knife is ground different and many manufacturers don't have the best heat treatment and when it's an early model they tend to have problems. A lot of them have also damaged the edges when they sharpen them. When you get on the forums they will tell you not to judge a knife until you have sharpened it back several times to get out of the burnt edges. My favorite folder had that problem. I have a early Benchmade Contego in M4 that doesn't hold an edge much better than AEB-L vs the M4 that I have done myself with a much thinner and harder edge can carve steel without chipping. W2 is great for getting a hamon but will not hold a edge like higher alloy steel. This is why Larrin is saying that the knife and not the steel is being tested.

 

[shqxk]

The way the blade is ground makes a huge difference. A knife with a near zero grind will outperform most production knives. One if the problems with all of those YouTube videos is that they use production knives and each knife is ground different and many manufacturers don't have the best heat treatment and when it's an early model they tend to have problems. A lot of them have also damaged the edges when they sharpen them. When you get on the forums they will tell you not to judge a knife until you have sharpened it back several times to get out of the burnt edges. My favorite folder had that problem. I have a early Benchmade Contego in M4 that doesn't hold an edge much better than AEB-L vs the M4 that I have done myself with a much thinner and harder edge can carve steel without chipping. W2 is great for getting a hamon but will not hold a edge like higher alloy steel. This is why Larrin is saying that the knife and not the steel is being tested.

You should check out his channel, many knives used in those tests are custom too.

I'm not arguing about what Larrin said, but CATRA isn't be all end all when it comes to knife steel test either since silicon impregmented card will dull the fine edge very rapidly and most low alloy steel which lacks hard carbide will never do well in that kind of test.

I have part-time job doing HT for knifemakers and have done heat treating on over 30 different steels from simple ones to the latest Magnacut and I often did some cut tests on most of them although not a very scientific test (cutting cardboard, robe, hardwood, breaking etc.) From my experience, the lower alloys can sometimes outperform the higher ones too when it comes to general edge holding, not really often but that is possible.

 

[nattynarwhal]

You should check out his channel, many knives used in those tests are custom too.

I'm not arguing about what Larrin said, but CATRA isn't be all end all when it comes to knife steel test either since silicon impregmented card will dull the fine edge very rapidly and most low alloy steel which lacks hard carbide will never do well in that kind of test.

I have part-time job doing HT for knifemakers and have done heat treating on over 30 different steels from simple ones to the latest Magnacut and I often did some cut tests on most of them although not a very scientific test (cutting cardboard, robe, hardwood, breaking etc.) From my experience, the lower alloys can sometimes outperform the higher ones too when it comes to general edge holding, not really often but that is possible.

What were your insights from the cut tests with magnacut? Did it perform to your expectations?

 

[shqxk]

What were your insights from the cut tests with magnacut? Did it perform to your expectations?

I did two different protocols on Magnacut, one is 2075F > subzero > 350F tempering, another is 2150F with triple 1000F tempering both came out at 61.5-62HRC. I did some carboard cut test on the first version, the edge holding is pretty similar to M390 but may be more test require to make a conclusion. I still haven't tested the second version but I think the edge holding might be slightly better tho.

 

[nattynarwhal]

I did two different protocols on Magnacut, one is 2075F > subzero > 350F tempering, another is 2150F with triple 1000F tempering both came out at 61.5-62HRC. I did some carboard cut test on the first version, the edge holding is pretty similar to M390 but may be more test require to make a conclusion. I still haven't tested the second version but I think the edge holding might be slightly better tho.

Do you do any edge stability tests (e.g., stressing the edge on hardwoods) to compare the edge toughness of steels? One amazing property of the low allow steels (52100 etc) is their incredible edge stability even at an extremely low BTE. I was curious if magnacut would behave similarly