Wa Handles? We Dont Need No Stinkin' Wa Handles!!!

[Cushing H.]

(For those who do not get the reference, google movies by Humphry Bogart.... )

Because there have recently been several discussion about Wa handles, with associated discussion about what distinguishes a western chefs knife from a Gyuto, or a utility knife from a Petty (etc), with the handle often being one of the principal differences between the japanese versus western forms......

For those who have not been fans of the Iron Chef TV shows, Masaharu Morimoto was one of the principal (if not *the* principal ) Iron Chef for the original Japanese series. He is also the Iron Chef who helped bring the competition (and skills used) over to the US for the Iron Chef America series. As far as flavors, it was (and still is) incredible what he could do in the time allotted on that show. Also, as far as *presentation*, I personally think he was second to none, especially with sushi and rice roll type dishes creating visual pieces of art that I myself would not even aspire to.... (and to this day, I have not seen one chef or host on Food TV who does not bow in homage to Chef Morimoto)

Well, of course, that artistry of prep and presentation required incredible knife skills, with likely familiarity with the best of the knives produced in Japan, and undoubtedly the ability to pay for them. Well, along the way I came across this video from Iron Chef Morimoto as a tutorial on how to prep rice rolls and sushi.....

My point is not about how to make rice rolls (although the fact I am making rice rolls for dinner tonight is what prompted this posting...), rather, the point is about his knives! If you watch the video, you will see arrayed on the wall behind him quite a few knives - I see a cleaver, a nakiri, a santoku, maybe a Honesuki, maybe a Gyuto and maybe a Petty. On his cutting board is what looks like a Yanagiba.

But the point is .... I do not see a single Wa style handle. All of them are a western riveted scale style handle (and the Yanagiba looks to be a beautiful antler of some type.

this is a guy at or near the top of the Japanese knife-skills list ..... and (at least in this video) he appears to not avail himself of a single Wa style handle.....

Food for thought.......

 

[Natlek]

Why I should care if top of the ...... like or don t like Wa handle ? I like them , that s matter to me .
BTW , seems to me that on that wall are some cheap Wusthof or something like that knives ?

 

[fitzo]

I think it's not surprising to find a Japanese chef who prefers western handles. Personal preference based on how we cut and our hand mechanics.

 

[Hubert S.]

I think you might be reading a little bit too much into the video, unless he left all his knives for Claire Saffitz to use in the video linked below...

 

[Cushing H.]

I think you might be reading a little bit too much into the video, unless he left all his knives for Claire Saffitz to use in the video linked below...

Ha. Funny. So looks like he used a standard studio? Still though, the knives he actually used were not wa handles. Still, I see your point

 

[Taz]

Wa versus Western is a personal preference. Just because one high end chef doesn't use it doesn't mean that many do not like them or that one is better than the other?

Wa's are typically lighter weight wise and come in a variety of shapes (octagon, D, oval, octoval, etc) and are easier to replace if needed. I have seen pictures from other professional Japanese sushi chefs who have Wa handles that are much smaller and hourglass shaped due to the wear. Pop off, burn in a new handle and they are ready to go again. There is a large industry of custom Wa handles that the end user can install themselves with simple hand tools and the end user can get different sizes to fit their hand and cooking style.

Westerns are typically heavier weight wise (even without a metal bolster, but most westerns do have the metal bolster) and use a synthetic and very durable handle material. The heavier full tang and bolster shifts the weight back towards the hand as well. Shape is more limited and for smaller knives, may not fill the hand as well. If they are damaged, they are much harder for the end user to replace as well.

I have made, used and owned many versions of both. I have converted Western handle knives to Wa handles (as well as removing the metal bolster) and made many frame style western shaped handles for Wa tanged knives, so it goes both ways! I even had one guy want a heavy western frame style handle with a large metal bolster at the front and back to make it more handle heavy to balance out the honyaki blade. I like fatter handles and it's easier to make a fatter/larger Wa handle for an existing knife since you are limited with the tang size on the full tang knives.

 

[Cushing H.]

Wa versus Western is a personal preference. Just because one high end chef doesn't use it doesn't mean that many do not like them or that one is better than the other?

Wa's are typically lighter weight wise and come in a variety of shapes (octagon, D, oval, octoval, etc) and are easier to replace if needed. I have seen pictures from other professional Japanese sushi chefs who have Wa handles that are much smaller and hourglass shaped due to the wear. Pop off, burn in a new handle and they are ready to go again. There is a large industry of custom Wa handles that the end user can install themselves with simple hand tools and the end user can get different sizes to fit their hand and cooking style.

Westerns are typically heavier weight wise (even without a metal bolster, but most westerns do have the metal bolster) and use a synthetic and very durable handle material. The heavier full tang and bolster shifts the weight back towards the hand as well. Shape is more limited and for smaller knives, may not fill the hand as well. If they are damaged, they are much harder for the end user to replace as well.

I have made, used and owned many versions of both. I have converted Western handle knives to Wa handles (as well as removing the metal bolster) and made many frame style western shaped handles for Wa tanged knives, so it goes both ways! I even had one guy want a heavy western frame style handle with a large metal bolster at the front and back to make it more handle heavy to balance out the honyaki blade. I like fatter handles and it's easier to make a fatter/larger Wa handle for an existing knife since you are limited with the tang size on the full tang knives.

Thanks Taz. I was really being mostly humorous though, given some of the previous discussions about wa handles and what makes for a "western" versus "japanese" style handle. Personally, i rather like the Wa handle - they are comfortable to use (for me at least) and can be constructed in some really beautiful ways.

Btw - i will likely sometime soon post a thread on reconstructing a Shun knife i have with a pinned on bolster. Based on your comments here and in another thread, sounds like you will have some good experience and thoughts to offer. Ill try to get that posted sometime soon...

 

[Taz]

Yeah, I like doing Wa handles and also hidden tang/frame handles as well. Gives more variety to the materials available and how to construct them! For me, it's the profile of the handle itself. The fairly straight rectangle handle shape/profile is a Wa to me (I have seen full tang octagon handles that look like a Wa handle, but are full tang) and the more curvy handle is a Western shaped handle, and then specify full tang vs hidden tang. It can get confusing! I like making chunkier Wa's and the octagon on top/oval on bottom is very comfy as well. I just do those as a full octagon and then round off the bottom side. Wa's are super easy to do; I have one 12" disc sander set at 90 for squaring up the pieces and block in general and to get the taper cut into the block and then another 12" with the work rest angled down to cut the facets into the block once it is shaped and tapered. I have also used my 2x72 for this lately too with pretty good results, but the Disc sanders are easier to get a more even cut.

Yeah, I did many conversions of full tang to stick tang and vice versa handle wise as well as bolster removal. It seems like each company uses their own technique and you don't know until you at least remove the scales or grind into the bolster. The pinned, hollow and lipped bolster was a weird one, but I was able to convert it to a Wa style handle, but it still had the ugly pin hole and groove in the blade. I wanted to move the handle up to cover those, but the customer wanted a neck between the handle and heel and was OK with them showing. The hollow bolster is an interesting idea to reduce the added weight of the bolster, but you need to be careful shaping it out to leave enough material!

 

[Natlek]

The Japanese are geniuses Wa handle , simple to make even more simple to attach on knife and they look cool and comfortable in the hands .
EDIT .....and you can use leftovers of wood in shop to combine nice handle

 

[Case_D]

I don't mind Wa handles when it comes to their shape and ergonomics. What pisses me off is how they're often left raw and rough. Not only do they pick up any gunk they come across, but they also retain way too much moisture. Wa handled knives are always failing at the tang due to rusting. I remember Murray Carter even mentioning how he makes the tang as thick as possible for this reason specifically. For more evidence, look at any Japanese knife restoration video on YouTube. The tangs are always destroyed. I've come across this firsthand as well. I purchased a lot of damaged Japanese knives off eBay just to play with restoring them. Sure enough, after chiseling off the handles, the tangs were in worse shape than the blades.

I can understand not sanding them super fine to leave some grip, but why don't they oil/wax it at the very least?

Of course, I'm not talking about all Wa handled knives here, just what I often see from Japanese production knives

 

[Taz]

They leave the wood natural so the grain stands out when it is wet for more grip, especially with the Ho wood handles, which are often found on cheaper knives. The upgraded handles are usually a better hardwood that holds up better and is finished better. I have rehandled a TON of Japanese kitchen knives between around 2010-2015. The burnt chestnut wa handles aren't bad and the nicer rosewood/ebony ones are nice, too. They are using better quality wood and better finished handles on many of their knives lately, so it is interesting to see how they reacted to the non Japanese customer complaints about cheapy wa handles!

 

[Cushing H.]

My understanding is that the whole idea of the non-sealed / removable/repleaceable Wa handles is precisely so that the handle can be taken off, and the tang cleaned and dried, just so as to avoid accumulation of crud and corrosion.

On might consider that the knives that have rusted out tangs are more user-error than a problem with Wa handles themselves....

 

[HSC ///]

My understanding is that the whole idea of the non-sealed / removable/repleaceable Wa handles is precisely so that the handle can be taken off, and the tang cleaned and dried, just so as to avoid accumulation of crud and corrosion.

On might consider that the knives that have rusted out tangs are more user-error than a problem with Wa handles themselves....

while this could certainly be a reason... the primary reason I get for a removable wa handle is for easier stone polishing of the blade by the user.

 

[Cushing H.]

while this could certainly be a reason... the primary reason I get for a removable wa handle is for easier stone polishing of the blade by the user.

Really? Ive never heard that - but i dont discount it. I guess though that idont see that a wa handle gets in the way of using a stone. Oh well, to each their own.

 

[HSC ///]

Really? Ive never heard that - but i dont discount it. I guess though that idont see that a wa handle gets in the way of using a stone. Oh well, to each their own.

Yes. These “sophisticated” customers have more stones than I do and often spend hundreds on a Japanese natural stone.

For those handles I use hot melt glue so they can heat up the knife and remove the handle

Look up kasumi finish

Kasumi finish