wallet/card knives in CA

Charlie Mike

Charlie Mike

Sober since 1-7-14 (still a Paranoid Nutjob)
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Nov 1, 2000
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I've determined from my research that fixed blades (concealed) must be readily accessible to be illegal under CA penal code. Where would that put a Nemesis or MT credit card knife? I'm making a new wallet since the wife's cat pissed on my pants and soiled my old wallet. I want to sew in a sheath area that would safely carry a Nemesis (Jeff Hall) Hellion keychain knife.
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I would think the simple answer is -Yes that is easily accessible, therefore, no it is not legal. I cant be sure though.

It is probably going to be up to the judge to determine -and surely the officer will not think kindly of it (:rolleyes:). You could try and find cases on point to see how past decisions were made if there are any.

I always want to have a fixed blade, but I have been weary of that particular section of "CA P.C. 12020" about easy access.

I am pretty sure that it will be similar to gun laws, which state that a gun is considered easily accessible even when it is in the back seat of a car. I think it has to be locked in a solid case to be considered not easily accessible (or locked in the trunk). If the gun laws translate the same way as knife laws -then I figure we cant carry concealed fixed blades that way (in a wallet). I have also wondered about carrying a knife in the bottom of my backpack. Surely that is not easily accessible in most peoples opinion, but in law it might be considered so.

-Also, I would like to know if we can carry a fixed blade on our belt if we have an article of clothing hanging completely over it.

If anyone has cases on point, that will be our best bet. Good thread.
 
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Would this be any different than carrying a razor blade in the wallet? During my days of snorting uppers, I always carried a razor blade covered in it's cardboard safety sheath in my wallet.
 
Charlie Mike said:
Would this be any different than carrying a razor blade in the wallet? During my days of snorting uppers, I always carried a razor blade covered in it's cardboard safety sheath in my wallet.
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Nice neck knife. How long is the blade?
 
1.5" approx
 
that's a tough one.

my opinion only, it would meet the elements for 12020 pc. a man's wallet is generally considered a readily accessible item, as are the contents.

not as easily accessible as a belt or neck sheath, but accessible nonetheless.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
that's a tough one.

my opinion only, it would meet the elements for 12020 pc. a man's wallet is generally considered a readily accessible item, as are the contents.

not as easily accessible as a belt or neck sheath, but accessible nonetheless.
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MORIMOTOM, how does blade length factor into this? Charlie Mike's blade is under 2" and would be legal even in anti-weapon jurisdictions like NYC and Boston. Although I live on the other side of the country (MA), I do have two relatives in CA, whom I plan to visit within the next year or so.
 
My understanding is that the only reason that fixed blades cannot be concealed is because of the prohibition on carrying a concealed "dirk or dagger." The definition for "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death" [emphasis added]

While I can see how a traditional neck knife might fall in this category, I don't see any way that a credit card knife could be said to be "capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon" regardless of where it is located. Slicing maybe, but not stabbing.

For small traditionally shaped knives, I agree with MORIMOTOM that it's a close call. I also think that size has to be considered when determining whether it "may inflict great bodily injury or death," and although I haven't done any research on the point, I think there is a good argument that a knife with a blade under 2 inches should not be treated the same way as a larger knife (partly based on the precedent for that approach in 653k).
 
Anything with a sharp point counts as a fixed blade/dagger/dirk etc. I won't carry anything with a fixed blade on my person concealed at any time. I stick to folders or if I need a fixed blade I leave it in the car or wear it on an exposed belt sheath.

Seriously, I don't want to play around with a felony.
 
TOM1960 said:
MORIMOTOM, how does blade length factor into this? Charlie Mike's blade is under 2" and would be legal even in anti-weapon jurisdictions like NYC and Boston. Although I live on the other side of the country (MA), I do have two relatives in CA, whom I plan to visit within the next year or so.
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per the letter of the law, blade length is irrelevant.

however, it could be a mitigating factor as far as the court is concerned.
 
HardUse said:
Anything with a sharp point counts as a fixed blade/dagger/dirk etc. I won't carry anything with a fixed blade on my person concealed at any time. I stick to folders or if I need a fixed blade I leave it in the car or wear it on an exposed belt sheath.

Seriously, I don't want to play around with a felony.
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I don't think that's really what the law says; while it is vague, there is a definition of dirk or dagger, and it doesn't go quite that far. And a section 12020 violation isn't necessarily a felony, although admittedly it can be and of course no one wants to be in a position where they have to argue about which it is.

FWIW, I don't carry fixed blades of any kind, except when fishing/camping/hunting, etc., and then they are not concealed.
 
These laws are called "wobblers" meaning they can be prosecuted as a M or an F. My knife will not be readily accessible or even. I would have to remove my wallet first, then open the snaps, and finally remove the blade.
 
There was a CA appellate decision linked in another thread that found the Swisscard to not be readily accessible. However, I agree that the setup shown would be iffy.

DancesWithKnives
 
Why would you want a little concealed knife like that when you can carry concealed assisted opening knives of all kinds that ARE readily accessible? Just leave your walking stick at home, because that could be a felony if you intend to use it as a weapon. I think the laws are pretty ridiculous when it's OK to have a huge assisted-opening folder in your pocket, but nun-chucks are a felony. Heck, you can even walk around with a broadsword on your belt in CA. I have wondered if beating someone over the head with your scabbard would be considered a worse crime than cutting them, but have never been placed in a life-threatening position where I had to make that decision.
In CA, if you want to carry a fixed blade, make sure it's long enough to hang below your shirt when it's on your belt. I would suggest MINIMUM of 6" blade just in case your shirt comes untucked. The nice thing about ridiculous laws is that there are plenty of loopholes, just don't try to buck the system.
 
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DWK2 said:
There was a CA appellate decision linked in another thread that found the Swisscard to not be readily accessible. However, I agree that the setup shown would be iffy.

DancesWithKnives
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the swisscard is a pretty inocuous item, as are most saks. i would speculate most people are comfortable with saks, my mom carries one in her purse.

we may not like this fact, but the appearance of the item will weigh at least partially with a judge or jury.

cm may ultimately be vidicated in a trial, but this would not preclude arrest and booking, which i think is what he wants to avoid.

i would not likely arrest him based solely on the knife, but other circumstances may lead me to decide otherwise. its a neat idea, but not terribly practical.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
the swisscard is a pretty inocuous item, as are most saks. i would speculate most people are comfortable with saks, my mom carries one in her purse.

we may not like this fact, but the appearance of the item will weigh at least partially with a judge or jury.

cm may ultimately be vidicated in a trial, but this would not preclude arrest and booking, which i think is what he wants to avoid.

i would not likely arrest him based solely on the knife, but other circumstances may lead me to decide otherwise. its a neat idea, but not terribly practical.
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Are those Swisscards just gimmicks, or do they hold a usefully sharp edge? Are they actually made of quality steel, or some cheap alloy that will quickly dull? I can only imagine the results of forgetting such a flat, lightweight knife in your wallet as you attempt to clear security at an airport or a well-guarded government office building. Somehow, I don't think TSA or Homeland Security personnel will be amused by such an oversight. My tastes in knives tend to run very conservative; as such, I am not as savvy as others are on exotic blade designs.
 
TOM1960 said:
Are those Swisscards just gimmicks, or do they hold a usefully sharp edge? Are they actually made of quality steel, or some cheap alloy that will quickly dull? I can only imagine the results of forgetting such a flat, lightweight knife in your wallet as you attempt to clear security at an airport or a well-guarded government office building. Somehow, I don't think TSA or Homeland Security personnel will be amused by such an oversight. My tastes in knives tend to run very conservative; as such, I am not as savvy as others are on exotic blade designs.
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they will take a pretty good edge, similar to the little saks for key chains.

its basically a flattened out sak. i dont have much need for one, but i can see how it would be useful and easily stored in a pocket or wallet.

when it comes to tsa or gov't security, there is no discretion. if an item is on "the list" or resembles, one, you're not getting through.
 
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