Want tips on titanium mods

[annasoH323]

I've got a ZT 0801 that I'm toying with the idea of soaking in Oxiclean (I don't have comfortable access to a power source for true anodizing). Maybe I can step up to anodizing, but my plan for now is just the Oxiclean.

Question 1: Do people have experience using it? I've seen some of the threads about darkening Ti but also saw one where the poster got a bronze color out of that process. Can anyone confirm colors other than dark using Oxiclean?

Question 2: I don't know where I read it, but whatever it was seemed to indicate that nail polish was a way to mask the Ti so that only part of it was treated. Is this true? Would the acetone used to clean that nail polish up negatively affect the scale/finish? Would this work in an electrical anodizing process as well?

Thanks.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

NP works as a resist for ferric chloride acid etching. It also works for the paintbrush style of anodizing.

If you want something other than darker gray than you already have, why not anodize? All you need is the number of 9v batteries that add up to the voltage that corresponds with the color you want.

Anodizing is fun, and looks cool, but if you just want to darken it, I've never done that so I'll leave it for those that have.

One thing though. I bead blasted a ti clip that had been darkened, and it remained darkened, even after the blasting. Also, if it's darkened it may resist anodizing so keep that in mind if you plan on ano later down the line.

Definitely post pics whatever you do.

 

[annasoH323]

It might be a while before I actually move on anything. To clarify, the paintbrush style is when the fluid is applied to a sponge or something and the other side of the power is attached to it right? Whereas, the other way would be to dunk it and everything gets the same treatment. The brushing idea may not be bad...

Since I've got the Oxiclean, do you think it'd work as a solution for anodizing?

 

[Omega Leather Works]

That's right.

You need an electrolytic solution, which can be Coca Cola, or baking soda and water or a number of other things. I've used baking soda and it seemed to give me the correct color for the voltage I used.

I have no idea if OxyClean is electrolytic.

 

[Moxy]

Anodizing is easy. I've used distilled water (I don't know if it NEEDS to be distilled or purified, but it can't hurt) and mixed in a little borax. The amount that you use it not critical. 30.5v gets a nice deep blue color. Disassemble and clean the scales thoroughly with alcohol. Put a dab of hot glue, or tape, over the detent ball. Only titanium metal can be exposed to the electrolyte solution during anodizing. If you don't do that the detent ball might quickly corrode and it will attract all the current away from the titanium and possibly give uneven results around it. Attach the - terminal to a piece of aluminum (rod, wire, sheet, foil) with an alligator clip and submerge it into the electrolyte. Don't let the alligator clip or wire touch the water. Attach the + alligator clip to your knife handle. Again you cannot let anything that is not titanium touch the liquid. So you'll have to anodize half of the scale, then clip the other side, and anodize the rest. So long as you don't change the voltage the color will match perfectly. While it's anodizing it'll take anywhere from 10-30 seconds, depending on how much electrolyte you mixed in, how close you hold the titanium away from the aluminum, and the surface area of the aluminum. Sometimes it helps to rotate the part while it's being anodized to make sure all sides get an even flow of current. Also mix the solution around so precipitates can't interfere with the anodization.

I wouldn't recommend trying for high voltage colors without first etching the titanium in acid. But gold-purple-blue are all easy to get with a crude set up.

Low voltage DC technically isn't really all that dangerous, but you should pretend that it is. Keep your hands out of the solution and don't touch live wires. Use common sense and you have nothing to worry about.

 

[annasoH323]

Thanks for the detailed tutorial Moxy. I'm at the point where I'm gathering as much information as I can on different techniques before I try anything. I've got a small titanium ring on order, so my intention is to test my technique on that when it comes in. Because of you and Strigamort, I've started seriously considering anodizing. I'm looking for some alligator clips, which are generally useful anyway. Strigamort mentioned a "paintbrush" style of anodizing which I've found some information on. It appeals to me because it doesn't involve dunking into a bath and I'd have more control over what I color (having a two-toned finish would be nice, as well as being able to limit my mistakes).

A thought that occurred to me was warranty voiding. I recently sent it in for some lock work (not sure how blade play developed in the first place) and if, in the off chance, it happened again, I wouldn't want to be without a lifeline. I've searched around the forum, but couldn't find a satisfactorily decisive answer. Hmm, this is more exciting than I thought... Maybe I should go turn my pent up knife tuning energies to putting a ridiculously sharp edge on it...

 

[spyderco lover]

Anodizing is easy. I've used distilled water (I don't know if it NEEDS to be distilled or purified, but it can't hurt) and mixed in a little borax. The amount that you use it not critical. 30.5v gets a nice deep blue color. disassemble and clean the scales thoroughly with alcohol. Put a dab of hot glue, or tape, over the detent ball. Only titanium metal can be exposed to the electrolyte solution during anodizing. If you don't do that the detent ball might quickly corrode and it will attract all the current away from the titanium and possibly give uneven results around it. Attach the - terminal to a piece of aluminum (rod, wire, sheet, whatever) with an alligator clip and submerge it into the electrolyte. Don't let the alligator clip or wire touch the water. Attach the + alligator clip to your knife handle. Again you cannot let anything that is not titanium touch the liquid. So you'll have to anodize half of the scale, then clip the other side, and anodize the rest. So long as you don't change the voltage the color will match perfectly. While it's anodizing it'll take anywhere from 10-30 seconds, depending on how much electrolyte you mixed in, how close you hold the titanium away from the aluminum, and the surface area of the aluminum. Sometimes it helps to rotate the part while it's being anodized to make sure all sides get an even flow of current. Also mix the solution around so precipitates can't interfere with the anodization.

I wouldn't recommend trying for high voltage colors without first etching the titanium in acid. But gold-purple-blue are all easy to get with a crude set up.

Low voltage DC technically isn't really all that dangerous, but you should pretend that it is. Keep your hands out of the solution and don't touch live wires. Use common sense and you have nothing to worry about.

That's a great explanation sir, what do you use for the electrical current? I would love to do this to one of my titanium bokers

 

[Moxy]

Thanks for the detailed tutorial Moxy. I'm at the point where I'm gathering as much information as I can on different techniques before I try anything. I've got a small titanium ring on order, so my intention is to test my technique on that when it comes in. Because of you and Strigamort, I've started seriously considering anodizing. I'm looking for some alligator clips, which are generally useful anyway. Strigamort mentioned a "paintbrush" style of anodizing which I've found some information on. It appeals to me because it doesn't involve dunking into a bath and I'd have more control over what I color (having a two-toned finish would be nice, as well as being able to limit my mistakes).

A thought that occurred to me was warranty voiding. I recently sent it in for some lock work (not sure how blade play developed in the first place) and if, in the off chance, it happened again, I wouldn't want to be without a lifeline. I've searched around the forum, but couldn't find a satisfactorily decisive answer. Hmm, this is more exciting than I thought... Maybe I should go turn my pent up knife tuning energies to putting a ridiculously sharp edge on it...

I've never tried the "paintbrush" method but it sounds interesting. Best thing to do is to try it on a scrap piece of titanium before you do the real thing. I don't think it would void the warrenty but you never know. Best thing to do would be to email KAI about it.

That's a great explanation sir, what do you use for the electrical current? I would love to do this to one of my titanium bokers

I have a bench top power supply that gives me a variable voltage range. I've read in the past that someone used 3 9v batteries connected in series to get 27v. That should yield a nice purple-ish blue color. You could also hoop up 2 or 3 more AA 1.5v batteries to give you 30 or 31.5v that would be a nice pure blue color that you see on alot of production knives.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

This was with four 9v's. I was really only concerned with the edges as these are liners. The process didn't seem to affect the detent, but I use the paintbrush method so I was able to concentrate on specific areas.

I'm going to try the submerging method next, but the PB method is really easy.

I got my clips from Harbor Freight. They can probably be found at Radio Shack too.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Oh, and for the warranty, best to ask KAI. Make sure they understand that it'll be done with electricity, not heat.

I've read more than once that CRK will warrant an electrically anodized Sebenza, but not if it's done with heat as that can change the piece physically.

 

[spyderco lover]

This was with four 9v's. I was really only concerned with the edges as these are liners. The process didn't seem to affect the detent, but I use the paintbrush method so I was able to concentrate on specific areas.

I'm going to try the submerging method next, but the PB method is really easy.

I got my clips from Harbor Freight. They can probably be found at Radio Shack too.

How did you wire the batteries together to get that awesome finish?

 

[Moxy]

That'll be a series configuration. Positive (+) of one battery connects to the negative (-) of the next battery. Then the (+) of that battery connects to the (-) of the next... and so on.
Like dis:

 

[annasoH323]

This was with four 9v's. I was really only concerned with the edges as these are liners. The process didn't seem to affect the detent, but I use the paintbrush method so I was able to concentrate on specific areas.

I'm going to try the submerging method next, but the PB method is really easy.

I got my clips from Harbor Freight. They can probably be found at Radio Shack too.

I've got some clips on order. Even if I don't end up using them for this, they're nifty to have around.

Oh, and for the warranty, best to ask KAI. Make sure they understand that it'll be done with electricity, not heat.

I've read more than once that CRK will warrant an electrically anodized Sebenza, but not if it's done with heat as that can change the piece physically.

I've got an email out to KAI but... weekend... I also don't know where to get titanium to test (does anyone know if hardware stores carry titanium objects for relatively cheap?) I do have a small lanyard ring on order, but don't know when that's coming in. Well, patience I guess. All good things to those who wait.

 

[Moxy]

You can pickup scrap pieces of 6al4v Ti on eBay for cheap. Thats what I used to test on. Then I made a Ti credit card to keep my cards from warping in my wallet.
Just finished anodizing my Ti key rings, 30.5v exactly. My cameraphone sucks at taking pics, but they look better in person.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

That's exactly right Moxy.

Very very cool items that you made. I've got some commercially pure titanium plates that I'm trying to figure out how to use. I've drilled out a piece in the shape of a shield so that I can cold forge it to a hammer finish to use as a pendant. I just need to find something hard, and at the correct radius to pound it against.

I'll post pics when I'm done.

As for attaining titanium... Ebay sounds right, or make friends with a knifemaker. Outside of that, all of the coils in my mattress (a very expensive mattress) are titanium. My wife may have a problem with me "harvesting" some though.

 

[Moxy]

Anodized Leatherman Charge anyone?



I tried out the "paintbrush" method for the first time on this. It came out pretty good. One word of caution though. When I did this I used a Q-tip soaked in the electrolyte solution and attached the (-) terminal to it and "painted" on the color with the (+) terminal attached to one of the blades on the Leatherman. The (-) alligator clip was very close to touching the Leatherman while anodizing. It's therefor quite easy to accidentally touch the metal alligator clip to the Multitool. In my case I'm using my bench power supply which can limit the current in the case of a short circuit. Even so it did spark a little bit when that happened. So if I had done this with batteries, especially high wattage cells, it would have been ALOT worse because there is no safety mechanism that can shut off the power. Not to mention it would leave a mark on the titanium where the metal vaporized away. So DO NOT try the "paintbrush" method with batteries. It's just too easy to short them out accidentally. Also you need to wear insulating gloves when you do this. Before I thought 30 volts isn't enough for you to feel the shock, but actually it is. I tried it. It feels like a very light buzzing. It's not painful but it will still freak you out if you don't know it's coming.

 

[annasoH323]

I tried out the "paintbrush" method for the first time on this. It came out pretty good. One word of caution though. When I did this I used a Q-tip soaked in the electrolyte solution and attached the (-) terminal to it and "painted" on the color with the (+) terminal attached to one of the blades on the Leatherman. The (-) alligator clip was very close to touching the Leatherman while anodizing. It's therefor quite easy to accidentally touch the metal alligator clip to the Multitool. In my case I'm using my bench power supply which can limit the current in the case of a short circuit. Even so it did spark a little bit when that happened. So if I had done this with batteries, especially high wattage cells, it would have been ALOT worse because there is no safety mechanism that can shut off the power. Not to mention it would leave a mark on the titanium where the metal vaporized away. So DO NOT try the "paintbrush" method with batteries. It's just too easy to short them out accidentally. Also you need to wear insulating gloves when you do this. Before I though 30 volts isn't enough for you to feel the shock, but actually it is. I tried it. It feels like a very light buzzing. It's not painful but it will still freak you out if you don't know it's coming.

Hmm, that confirms a theoretical suspicion of mine. I figured that using the paintbrush method would allow me to keep my knife intact while I worked since I wouldn't have to worry about corroding or shorting like I would with the bath method. It also confirms that a Q-tip would be sufficient to work. I figured that I'd wrap the clip in electrical tape to prevent accidental shorts.

Do you have a current readout on your power supply? Another theoretical notion I had was to fuse the batteries myself. I don't have a lot of cash or space for a power supply (college student) and I don't want to use the lab power supply for a home project that could be bad. So, I thought that I could add a fuse in series with the batteries for a measure of safety. But, if I tape the clip and keep the two clips away from each other, I can't foresee a problem... Especially if clipping the + terminal to the blade will work. I can open the knife, clip + to the knife tip, then work on the titanium (theoretically). Any red flags in anybody's mind?

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Oops, I should have mentioned that I wrapped mine in electrical tape. I also wore rubber gloves and safety glasses.

In any case, if you have the space and steady hands, I think it works fine. I've done several pieces, but I'm very careful. You should be too.

I believe Moxy is way more experienced than me though. Aside from a few bits of whatever I can help you with, you're probably better off listening to his advice.

 

[Moxy]

That might be a good idea to use a fuse, but one problem might be the burn speed. I don't know if the fuse will blow out fast enough to prevent a spark. Like I said even with my current limiter on my power supply it would still spark a little bit. During the anodizing, depending on the amount of electrolyte you mix in and the distance the current has to move through the Q-tip, there was only about 50mA of current flowing at most. So if you did try a fuse I would start with one rated at around 100mA. Buy a pack of them and see how quickly they pop in the event of a short. It's certainly is better than nothing. Another option would be to just use some wimpy batteries. 10 3v coin cells wired in series would give you a nice blue color and I don't think those will cause a spark when they're shorted out. They will give 30v no problem, but they will struggle to maintain that high voltage in the event of a very high current draw. Just never use deep cycle or car batteries. Haha, those will blow up in your face!

In the case with the Leatherman I could not take it apart, nor would I want to, so the Q-tip method is the only way to do it. Just be careful.

 

[annasoH323]

I'll do some research on current abilities of batteries. It might also come down to cost... Careful will be the name of the game though. I'm also not against removing the scale to work on it, though I'd still want to use paintbrush/Q-tip method. Thanks for the answer about the current. 50mA isn't too much, but then again, a spike may not read properly.

I did get a response from KAI customer service. They said that, generally, if the modification didn't cause the problem, then it'll be serviceable. To that end, I may just color the non-lock side just in case I ever need to send it in for lock trouble. That way, I can remove doubt that my modifications caused the problem.