-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
want to get serious about sharpening
- Thread starter 65steve65
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2013
- Messages
- 154
Look at the wicked edge pro pack 1 or pro pack 2
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2012
- Messages
- 654
that's a bit steep, I'd love to have one but it'll be a while before I can afford that lol
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2013
- Messages
- 3,236
DMT diasharp coarse/fine 2x6, Spyderco UF benchstone 2x8, and a strop with Bark River green compound. This all can be had for about $120 new. This will tackle all that you need til you advance your skills, or if you decide you don't like freehand your not out too much money.
I use this setup up all the time. Plus you can really practice your skills on the UF stone and get your technique down. The UF stone doesn't take much steel off
The strop will help you maintain constant angle, as well as help remove the burr.
I use this setup up all the time. Plus you can really practice your skills on the UF stone and get your technique down. The UF stone doesn't take much steel off
The strop will help you maintain constant angle, as well as help remove the burr.- Joined
- Feb 19, 2009
- Messages
- 25
Its an investment to be sure. But one that I think is well worth it. And the results you can achieve are outstanding. Its worth saving up for, even if it takes a little while.
Go fnid a cheap Norton Econostone or India stone and practice on that until you can get a hairwhittling edge on the coarse side. Go from there.
Buying really expensive stones won't really help... Just trying to spare you the disappointment. What I'm really trying to say is that any reasonably decent hone to start off with will be good until you can pick up the skills, because it's not about a certain quality of stone or certan grit that will suddenly make the difference.
With that said I would advocate diamond hones... Or something that doesn't wear down quickly like waterstones since when they get out of flat it can throw another angle into the learning curve. If you want to make an "investment" so-to-speak I would get a set of DMT Dia-Sharp hones.
Buying really expensive stones won't really help... Just trying to spare you the disappointment. What I'm really trying to say is that any reasonably decent hone to start off with will be good until you can pick up the skills, because it's not about a certain quality of stone or certan grit that will suddenly make the difference.
With that said I would advocate diamond hones... Or something that doesn't wear down quickly like waterstones since when they get out of flat it can throw another angle into the learning curve. If you want to make an "investment" so-to-speak I would get a set of DMT Dia-Sharp hones.
Very well said KennyB. Very well said.
Jason B.
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2007
- Messages
- 11,179
Hair splitting from the coarse side is REALLY pushing the ability on a cheap Norton stone. I don't even think I could produce results like that.
Not all waterstones wear quickly, there are several that are actually very hard and dish resistant. Buying the good stuff DOES help and will advance your skills much faster than using a basic tool that requires good skill to produce results. A simple Norton stone does well but its a world of difference using a premium waterstone.
I would recommend the OP do some homework on the different types of sharpening stones and then ask questions about the ones that gained the most interest.
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2012
- Messages
- 93
KennyB, you are a breath of fresh air in the midst of endless repetition. Thank you.
The OP did not ask for a recommendation on another guided system like the one he already has.
The OP did not ask for recommendations on mechanical systems.
The OP expressed an interest specifically in HAND SHARPENING.
The OP is perfectly free, funds being available, to spend a fortune on any combination of bench stones (or handheld stones) his heart desires.
The skill set for a cheap stone is fundamentally the same as the skill set for a priceless stone. The more expensive stones will NOT make you a better sharpener UNTIL you know how to use them. They will help improve your skills in time, but, first, you must acquire the skills you hope to improve upon. You can do that with a carborundum or India stone for pocket change. If you cannot generate a hair-shaving edge with either of these stones, your only excuse for more hand sharpening toys is to fill your hope chest. Plus, you'll have the advantage of forcing yourself to focus on developing control and muscle memory instead of getting diverted by thoughts like: "Well, this stone doesn't sharpen well; I'll try one of the others." YOU are the sharpener; the stones just determine the edge refinement.
Without basic skill, which only comes from experience, which should include instruction, all your hones are paperweights.
The OP did not ask for a recommendation on another guided system like the one he already has.
The OP did not ask for recommendations on mechanical systems.
The OP expressed an interest specifically in HAND SHARPENING.
The OP is perfectly free, funds being available, to spend a fortune on any combination of bench stones (or handheld stones) his heart desires.
The skill set for a cheap stone is fundamentally the same as the skill set for a priceless stone. The more expensive stones will NOT make you a better sharpener UNTIL you know how to use them. They will help improve your skills in time, but, first, you must acquire the skills you hope to improve upon. You can do that with a carborundum or India stone for pocket change. If you cannot generate a hair-shaving edge with either of these stones, your only excuse for more hand sharpening toys is to fill your hope chest. Plus, you'll have the advantage of forcing yourself to focus on developing control and muscle memory instead of getting diverted by thoughts like: "Well, this stone doesn't sharpen well; I'll try one of the others." YOU are the sharpener; the stones just determine the edge refinement.
Without basic skill, which only comes from experience, which should include instruction, all your hones are paperweights.
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Messages
- 6,642
Basically you'll need a coarse stone, medium, and fine. You could flush this out to infinity (or nearly so) by getting extra coarse, extra fine etc, but for most work you will need the three grades. To start out you could easily just buy a Norton combination India stone and have the first two (coarse and medium) covered. Some polishing compound on balsa or just a sheet of paper wrapped around the same stone will suffice for a fine stone. You could also get a Spyderco fine ceramic - works well following the fine side of the India stone.
Personally I highly recommend the Norton combination Crystalon stone as it seems to do a better job on all comers, and if you use it with oil can serve as an intro to waterstones based on how it works. You can also claim the grit from the stone and use that for a stropping compound. As you get better with your freehand technique you could look at a wider variety of stones, but the Crystalon or India will work very well and give you good feedback without costing much money.
I also sell a sharpening block through the link in my signature that you might find interesting. Am out of stock currently but will have more in a week or so. Some may start escaping my workshop in the next few days.
Martin
True I think I was thinking more of hair shaving. But yeah I agree having good tools to start with helps--which is why i didn't do the ol'd "Use a cinder block or the sidewalk" mentality
I've got the DMT 8 X 3 diasharp plates in XXC, C, and EF. I also have an unusual Norton stone that's 8 x 2, a combination of medium Crystolon on one side, and fine India on the other. I also have a set of Nubatama water stones, 150, 1k (ume) and 5k.
What I noticed right off the bat when I went from the Norton to the DMT, was the incredible grinding power of the XXC. It grinds metal so fast, that I was able to see results in a MUCH faster time frame than with the Norton, even though the medium Crystolon is a *good* stone and a reasonably fast cutter. The XXC is just faster, and doesn't dish. I then noticed that I had better "feel" on the DMT plate because of the increased surface contact with the blade. With the blade set not straight across the stone, but rotating it a bit, like it was pointing at 10:30 on a clock face, I get a lot of the blade in contact with the plate/stone at once. This makes it more stable. I also grinds off metal more quickly. Doing this clock face angle is something I hadn't tried with the Norton and it's a very good technique to use. That and the Japanese stroke of course!
Once I got the Nubatama stones, the stability was the same, as they are the same size as the DMT 8x3 plates. The *feel* is totally different. Much smoother, even on the 150 which is pretty rough, but no where near as rough as the XXC. The 1k Ume stone has a wonderful feel. Much more... it's weird to say this... much more relaxing to use and more of a kind of Zen experience. That's all touchy feely. It most certainly feels smoother and more consistent than the DMT plates. The 5k is like silk; totally different than any other stone I have. It's also the first stone I've had (including Spyderco medium and fine) that will produce a mirror polished edge. Water stones are different. They're also a bit of a pain to set up, store, rinse, etc. But worth it if you are *into* the experience.
My main point in writing this was to emphasize the stability and grinding action of an 8 x 3 stone/plate, versus an 8 x 2 or (No!) a 6 x 2. All of this is just based on my own experience. Oh and I personally find that a stone holder is valuable to have. Sure you can use a wet towel with a water stone. The DMT have rubber feet. But the holder REALLY nails the stone or place in place and, in the case of the DMT, raises it up off the table so that the handle of the knife and your fingers clear the table. Without it, it's really hard to set up so that your hand doesn't hit the table.
Give us a little feedback and someone here should be able to recommend specifics for you.
Brian.
What I noticed right off the bat when I went from the Norton to the DMT, was the incredible grinding power of the XXC. It grinds metal so fast, that I was able to see results in a MUCH faster time frame than with the Norton, even though the medium Crystolon is a *good* stone and a reasonably fast cutter. The XXC is just faster, and doesn't dish. I then noticed that I had better "feel" on the DMT plate because of the increased surface contact with the blade. With the blade set not straight across the stone, but rotating it a bit, like it was pointing at 10:30 on a clock face, I get a lot of the blade in contact with the plate/stone at once. This makes it more stable. I also grinds off metal more quickly. Doing this clock face angle is something I hadn't tried with the Norton and it's a very good technique to use. That and the Japanese stroke of course!
Once I got the Nubatama stones, the stability was the same, as they are the same size as the DMT 8x3 plates. The *feel* is totally different. Much smoother, even on the 150 which is pretty rough, but no where near as rough as the XXC. The 1k Ume stone has a wonderful feel. Much more... it's weird to say this... much more relaxing to use and more of a kind of Zen experience. That's all touchy feely. It most certainly feels smoother and more consistent than the DMT plates. The 5k is like silk; totally different than any other stone I have. It's also the first stone I've had (including Spyderco medium and fine) that will produce a mirror polished edge. Water stones are different. They're also a bit of a pain to set up, store, rinse, etc. But worth it if you are *into* the experience.
My main point in writing this was to emphasize the stability and grinding action of an 8 x 3 stone/plate, versus an 8 x 2 or (No!) a 6 x 2. All of this is just based on my own experience. Oh and I personally find that a stone holder is valuable to have. Sure you can use a wet towel with a water stone. The DMT have rubber feet. But the holder REALLY nails the stone or place in place and, in the case of the DMT, raises it up off the table so that the handle of the knife and your fingers clear the table. Without it, it's really hard to set up so that your hand doesn't hit the table.
Give us a little feedback and someone here should be able to recommend specifics for you.
Brian.
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2012
- Messages
- 1,261
To give my own .02c I've unknowingly sharpened at larger 40-50 degree inclusive angles while thinking I was sharpening around 30-40 degrees inclusive. It is much harder in my experience to get really sharp edges on more obtuse bevels. I started freehand sharpening on an india type stone, sandpaper and glass, and arkansas stones. I currently now use waterstones. I use shapton glass waterstones which are fairly hard, but having a good means to flatten your waterstone is important. For awhile I was using a very large gradual dished waterstone that was giving me poor results. I had though it was flat, but I later found that to be far from true. I have never used diamond stones, but they seem like a low maintenance and effective option.
The cheapest route imo would be to get a norton crystalon and pair it with a finer stone and a strop.
The cheapest route imo would be to get a norton crystalon and pair it with a finer stone and a strop.