Warning to British Troops

K

Kiri

Joined
Jun 20, 2002
Messages
96
Back in January, as a member of the UK Reserve Forces, I was called up to go to Afghanistan

(Lucky me!)

I thought long and hard about what sort of knife I should take with me.
I was based in Germany for the pre-deployment training and as on many camps there was an American PX shop (AAFES) which sold a number of knives at the prices you wish you could buy them in the UK!

I settled on a Benchmade 551 and a Cold steel Spike.

The Benchmade provided a very sharp half serrated blade and is a very solid knife. This was extremely handy in training and was always being borrowed by everyone to cut cord, webbing, open foil ration packets etc etc.

The CS Spike has an obvious MBC use but aside from that is actually extremely handy for removing splinters and drilling holes in things.

So off we went to Afghanistan. The Royal Military Police and RAF Police were absolutely fine with us taking anything we liked out to Afghanistan (Including ASP Batons,CS etc (Which are, I hasten to add, legal in Germany but not in UK) )

Whilst in theatre I used both knives regularly and they were an essential piece of my kit.

Bear in mind I am an infantry soldier and am also a team medic.

The problem came when we came to the end of our tour and all the more experienced guys said "you'll never get that back"

I asked them what they meant and it appeared from bitter experience that any knife is confiscated upon leaving theatre!

One friend whilst in Iraq bought a number of leathermans as presents for family and had them all confiscated by the RAF Police. He said "OK then" and proceded to snap the blades one by one. (If he couldnt have them no one else was) The RAF Policeman went mad and said "theres no need to spoil them" The implication obviously being that they werent going to be "destroyed" at all but were going to the very same officers.

Another friend was also in Iraq when they started confiscating Kukris which were popular with a lot of troops (not necessarily just Gurkhas) He personally overheard one of the "x-ray monkeys" saying "the next ones mine" they then tried it with the Gurkhas (brave of them) until a senior officer complained.

Bear in mind all these items were to go in the hold of the aircraft.

I didnt like the sound of this so went to see the RMP to check what the score was.

"forget it"
"Why do you need a knife"
"Lock knives are illegal in the UK"
"Thats an offensive weapon"

etc etc. It appears that none of them could quite agree on the law but they all agreed that lock knives were illegal in the UK and so I couldnt take one back there.

I did point out that I was a serving infantry soldier and it was part of my kit and also that its quite legal to buy and own a lock knife in the UK. They laughed!

They said that it wasnt under any military law that they were banned only that they had to uphold normal UK law and normal Civil Aviation law.
I pointed out that I had transported much worse things in the hold of a commercial flight. They again just laughed.

I was then told that if I needed a knife I would have been issued it!

(Ha! well we could say that we needed, air cover, more ammo, Asherman chest seals......but we didnt get those either! guess he wouldnt have been laughing if id had to cut him out of a burning landrover with nothing but my combi tool)

For various reasons, although we had our bayonets with us, at first we werent allowed to carry them on patrol. Something about image and doing "peace support" rather than "war fighting". Then later when we all did carry them, we werent allowed to sharpen them! (again because you can only sharpen them in wartime)

It actually says on our list of "kit to provide ourselves" "folding knife" with no mention of size or lock etc.

The bottom line is.... If you are a UK soldier going on deployment. Dont take any knife out with you that you want to bring back. I would suggest buying a cheapie Gerber (mini Applegate Fairbairn is about £17 from PX) use it for your tour and then give it to someone as a gift before you head back to UK. Its just not worth the hassle!

I did actually get my knives back via another route (they informed me it was also illegal to post them!) I wont elaborate here exactly how but it was a lot of hassle.

Obviously even if you are a soldier and doing a job that requires a lock knife or fixed blade dont expect any sympathy from the RMP or RAF Police!
 
so sorry to hear what has happened to a once great country! i will pray that the real men of the u.k. take it back one day!
 
So army searchs through soldiers before they enter on army plane back home? :)
They should obtain prize for bureaucracy...
 
Donny b, before you get too damned cockey, I understand that it is not all that different when US troops rotate home.
 
huugh said:
So army searchs through soldiers before they enter on army plane back home? :)
They should obtain prize for bureaucracy...
Click to expand...

Yes all soldiers get searched on the way home.

Im proud that my Government trusts me to carry a rifle when im serving them in a war zone but they dont trust me to have a three inch lock knife!
 
MMMM My local soldiers {Royal Marines.} bring thier stuff back no from Afghanistan no problem.

Sounds like thier some criminal MPs doing thier own collecting, & your own officers were not supporting you? Thats Bad.

& as for confiscating Gurkhas kukris that seems rather unlikly, for starters they are issue kit...

Spiral
 
spiraltwista said:
MMMM My local soldiers {Royal Marines.} bring thier stuff back no from Afghanistan no problem.

Sounds like thier some criminal MPs doing thier own collecting, & your own officers were not supporting you? Thats Bad.

& as for confiscating Gurkhas kukris that seems rather unlikly, for starters they are issue kit...

Spiral
Click to expand...

If the Royal Marines that you know got their kit back OK then lucky them.

I personally saw Royal Marines having items confiscated at the Airport I flew from.

As for my officers supporting me. They had items "confiscated" as well. They are subject to so called "airport security" just like anyone else. Army officers have very little, if any influence over RAF Police.

The Kukris that were successfully taken were from British troops who were not Gurkhas.

A Kukri is not general issue kit. Kukris are only generally available to Gurkhas via the shops on their camps. Many other non Gurkha troops own them and use them, however they bought them themselves.

As I said, they tried to take Kukris from Gurkhas and a senior Gurkha officer complained. To them it is issue kit. It is also a piece of national dress. It is also the equivalent of their colours.

Unfortunate if you find it "unlikely" but then you weren't there.
 
Kiri,

You say I wasnt there? you are correct, but as you said yourself "they tried to take Kukris from Gurkhas and a senior Gurkha officer complained"

So my comment that they were unlikly to conficate them is born out by your own testimony.


That same statement also shows your comment about Officers bieng overuled by RAF privates to be incorrect.

Your comment about thier kukri being equivalent to thier colours is also incorrect.

The kukri is there sidearm & tool so they dont treat them with the respect they would thier Regimental Truncheon for instance.

All though you are correct about it could be veiwed as national dress. {Although when I was there last year the situation is more complex than that due to the Maoist situatuion.}

Yes my local marines must be lucky, they didnt get robbed by the thieves you met. Some of them would be rather "specialised troops" I admit. With the inteligence to lock them in a sealed container transported in the hold & ditch the keys before bording the plane.

In English law You can carry such items as long as they are securly locked away & you cant access them. {I ve done it through Heathrow, etc.}

Normaly an Officer will ask to speak to someone of there own rank. Still I guess part time officers are not so used to it all.

Actualy for your information & as point of fact kukri is issue kit to Gurkhas.

I have a letter from British Gurkha Headquarters in Kathmando confirming which 3 firms they buy the kukris from for issue to the recruits during basic training.

& Yes they can buy kukri from camp shops as many soldiers do, I am freinds with some of the main producers in Nepal & Englands main importer & know a couple of Senior Gurkha Officers & have met varios others including NCOs in my research about kukri..

Heres a little article I did for my fellow collectors about the varios issue kukris including the current one.


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...ight=wilkinson
.


Spiral




Kiri said:
If the Royal Marines that you know got their kit back OK then lucky them.

I personally saw Royal Marines having items confiscated at the Airport I flew from.

As for my officers supporting me. They had items "confiscated" as well. They are subject to so called "airport security" just like anyone else. Army officers have very little, if any influence over RAF Police.

The Kukris that were successfully taken were from British troops who were not Gurkhas.

A Kukri is not general issue kit. Kukris are only generally available to Gurkhas via the shops on their camps. Many other non Gurkha troops own them and use them, however they bought them themselves.

As I said, they tried to take Kukris from Gurkhas and a senior Gurkha officer complained. To them it is issue kit. It is also a piece of national dress. It is also the equivalent of their colours.

Unfortunate if you find it "unlikely" but then you weren't there.
Click to expand...
 
Kiri said:
Back in January, as a member of the UK Reserve Forces, I was called up to go to Afghanistan

(Lucky me!)

I thought long and hard about what sort of knife I should take with me.
I was based in Germany for the pre-deployment training and as on many camps there was an American PX shop (AAFES) which sold a number of knives at the prices you wish you could buy them in the UK!

I settled on a Benchmade 551 and a Cold steel Spike.

The Benchmade provided a very sharp half serrated blade and is a very solid knife. This was extremely handy in training and was always being borrowed by everyone to cut cord, webbing, open foil ration packets etc etc.

The CS Spike has an obvious MBC use but aside from that is actually extremely handy for removing splinters and drilling holes in things.

So off we went to Afghanistan. The Royal Military Police and RAF Police were absolutely fine with us taking anything we liked out to Afghanistan (Including ASP Batons,CS etc (Which are, I hasten to add, legal in Germany but not in UK) )

Whilst in theatre I used both knives regularly and they were an essential piece of my kit.

Bear in mind I am an infantry soldier and am also a team medic.

The problem came when we came to the end of our tour and all the more experienced guys said "you'll never get that back"

I asked them what they meant and it appeared from bitter experience that any knife is confiscated upon leaving theatre!

One friend whilst in Iraq bought a number of leathermans as presents for family and had them all confiscated by the RAF Police. He said "OK then" and proceded to snap the blades one by one. (If he couldnt have them no one else was) The RAF Policeman went mad and said "theres no need to spoil them" The implication obviously being that they werent going to be "destroyed" at all but were going to the very same officers.

Another friend was also in Iraq when they started confiscating Kukris which were popular with a lot of troops (not necessarily just Gurkhas) He personally overheard one of the "x-ray monkeys" saying "the next ones mine" they then tried it with the Gurkhas (brave of them) until a senior officer complained.

Bear in mind all these items were to go in the hold of the aircraft.

I didnt like the sound of this so went to see the RMP to check what the score was.

"forget it"
"Why do you need a knife"
"Lock knives are illegal in the UK"
"Thats an offensive weapon"

etc etc. It appears that none of them could quite agree on the law but they all agreed that lock knives were illegal in the UK and so I couldnt take one back there.

I did point out that I was a serving infantry soldier and it was part of my kit and also that its quite legal to buy and own a lock knife in the UK. They laughed!

They said that it wasnt under any military law that they were banned only that they had to uphold normal UK law and normal Civil Aviation law.
I pointed out that I had transported much worse things in the hold of a commercial flight. They again just laughed.

I was then told that if I needed a knife I would have been issued it!

(Ha! well we could say that we needed, air cover, more ammo, Asherman chest seals......but we didnt get those either! guess he wouldnt have been laughing if id had to cut him out of a burning landrover with nothing but my combi tool)

For various reasons, although we had our bayonets with us, at first we werent allowed to carry them on patrol. Something about image and doing "peace support" rather than "war fighting". Then later when we all did carry them, we werent allowed to sharpen them! (again because you can only sharpen them in wartime)

It actually says on our list of "kit to provide ourselves" "folding knife" with no mention of size or lock etc.

The bottom line is.... If you are a UK soldier going on deployment. Dont take any knife out with you that you want to bring back. I would suggest buying a cheapie Gerber (mini Applegate Fairbairn is about £17 from PX) use it for your tour and then give it to someone as a gift before you head back to UK. Its just not worth the hassle!

I did actually get my knives back via another route (they informed me it was also illegal to post them!) I wont elaborate here exactly how but it was a lot of hassle.

Obviously even if you are a soldier and doing a job that requires a lock knife or fixed blade dont expect any sympathy from the RMP or RAF Police!
Click to expand...

To be honest. 99% of all military don't really need a knife during their work, exept their usual tool (swiss or something like that, depending from wich country)

Neri
 
From the tone of your first reply to my post "Mmm" "I find that unlikely" I took it to mean that you doubted that they had tried to confiscate Kukris from Gurkhas. Indeed it could easily be understood that you were casting dispersions on the veracity of my post.

Yes they did try.

With regard to the question of Army officers having sway over RAF Police. The most senior officer I was travelling with was a captain. The officers were both reservists and regulars. They like everyone else, wanted to get through airport security and get home. So they complied with the confiscations.

In the incident with the Gurkhas, the senior officer was a Lt Colonel. He contacted the powers that be when it was reported to him that this was occuring (from his office, not standing in line waiting to go through the x-ray). I am sure he did this very high up the chain. Hardly the same as being a captain waiting in a queue of several hundred blokes who all want to get on the plane.

Yes I am well aware of Uk knife law. Hence the point of my post.

Technically the Kukri may not be the Gurkhas actual "colours" however every Gurkha I have known has treated their Kukri as almost a religious object. The Gurkha I last served with would do the whole cutting himself thing every time he drew the blade, and every time anyone else made the mistake of touching it without his permission. Admittedly he was a bit "old school"

It is their symbol after all, and appears on their cap badge for that reason. The point I am really making is that to attempt to take a Kukri off a Gurkha is a much more serious affair culturaly and religiously than say taking a golok off a normal squaddie.

I know Gurkhas get issued Kukris. The point I was making is that it is not "general issue "kit (I wish it was) so your average soldier does not get one
Therefore the non-Gurkha UK troops cannot use the "I was issued it" excuse. Even though under UK law they would be allowed to have it in the hold anyway.

All cases, trunks etc even the ones going in the hold go through x-ray with you. Unfortunately the "ive lost the keys" wouldnt work.
 
Neri said:
To be honest. 99% of all military don't really need a knife during their work, exept their usual tool (swiss or something like that, depending from wich country)

Neri
Click to expand...

On our list of kit that we have to provide for ourselves it says "folding knife" so obviously they acknowlege that you need a knife. I think they just dont want to pay for them. In fact in past times you used to be issued with a clasp knife.

Nearly every soldier I know carries at least a 3" lock knife or a Gerber / Leatherman. Sometimes both.

I agree that not everybody needs a "fighting" knife. Not everyone is in the infantry and in the infantry you have your issue bayonet after all. (see my previous comments on carrying / sharpening)

However when you are living in the field as we were. Its a bit like a 6 month backpacking / camping trip. To not carry at least a decent lock knife would be nuts!

I take your point on swiss army knives / tools. But we dont get issued those either.
 
donny b said:
so sorry to hear what has happened to a once great country! i will pray that the real men of the u.k. take it back one day!
Click to expand...

Ever seen V for Vendetta? That will happen again someday in the UK. The people are opressed there as far as gun law and knife laws go... When taxes get higher and the people are pressured into a police state, V for Vendetta will commence.... REVOLUTION.

Take back the country of England from the tyrrants!!
 
Thanks for your repley Kiri, My "mmm" didnt mean i didnt belive you, just that I new trying to confiscate a Gurkha kukri wouldnt work.

The written word is easily misunderstood.

Thank you for your other clarifications.

In English law you can transport knives & swords in locked container without keys. they are only offensive weapons if you have access to them., I do this all the time.. With keys at each end of journy. You dont lose the keys , you tell explain you can not access the swords & knives.

It is the access to them that makes them illegal.

it works in English law.

Spiral
 
UNBELIEVABLE! Lock knives arnt illegal to own in the uk? Only to carry?
Your right, they can trust you with a rifle but now with a knife. If theyre just stealing your knives thats terrible.
Shouldnt you be provided with knives? I was shown the standard isue knife that youre given.
Im not in the army, but a good thread for sure. Maybe you should put it in general knives?
 
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