Warranty & Product Promises

[DustinY]

Hey guys,

I’m starting to think about how I’m going to structure my product promises and warranty. Obviously the knife is a tool, and should perform as such, but do you guys have a standard or rule of thumb you follow? I know the chances of claims are incredibly small - which is why I’m keen to just cover anything & everything (even if it doesn’t seem like something that is my fault).

any horror stories or lessons you care to share / pass on?

I’m bored and looking to talk this out with some similar minded people - feel free to add onto the discussion.

 

[Mark van Elteren]

I will cover anything - including wooden handles that were soaked in water or even put in a dishwasher - I explain to every customer that this shouldn't be done, but it has happened before. I don't have a time based warranty, I just fix or change anything the customer wants or needs - it honestly happens very little.

Mark

 

[DustinY]

I will cover anything - including wooden handles that were soaked in water or even put in a dishwasher - I explain to every customer that this shouldn't be done, but it has happened before. I don't have a time based warranty, I just fix or change anything the customer wants or needs - it honestly happens very little.

Mark

This just seems like the best policy, especially because I want people to use them. I’d rather them go over used than just be pawned collector to collector.

 

[Richard338]

I remembered Stacy has a use/care and warranty sheet.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/how-to-care-for-your-carbon-steel-knife-letter.1529628/

 

[DustinY]

I remembered Stacy has a use/care and warranty sheet.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/how-to-care-for-your-carbon-steel-knife-letter.1529628/

well this is incredible, thank you so much.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Dustin,
Since this is a regular topic and good general discussion, I will leave the thread open. However, I will caution you that discussion sales and such is a privilege for knifemaker and higher membership level.

I'll try and pull up my info and warranty sheet later on.

 

[DustinY]

Dustin,
Since this is a regular topic and good general discussion, I will leave the thread open. However, I will caution you that discussion sales and such is a privilege for knifemaker and higher membership level.

I'll try and pull up my info and warranty sheet later on.

I abuse and use this service more than most, I’ve been a constant leech here for 5-6 months. Dues have been paid.

 

[Drew Riley]

I've "re-conditioned" a couple of my knives for customers in the past, at no charge. I think I even covered return shipping in one instance where the customer wasn't local. One guy had left his knife in a cup of bleach over night after using it to scrape out a shitter tank. I took the scales off, re-ground the entire knife, and put the scales back on. More recently, I had a guy ask me to clean one up that looked like somebody else had tried to sharpen it on a bench grinder. I re-ground the blade, cleaned up the handle, and re-molded the kydex.

Now, under no circumstances was I "obligated" to do anything for either knife, as it was user error in both cases, but I did so because I had some spare time and a kind heart.

I've never put anything in writing, but I'll usually tell people that their knives have a "lifetime warranty" based on whoever dies first: (me or them), and that I'll sharpen or clean it up for that duration as long as they cover shipping costs. That said, it's at my discretion, especially while I have the time and energy to do so. If I start making 100+ knives per year and get weekly requests to re-handle or clean up a knife, chances are I'll revise my "policy", but I do try to take care of all of my customers within reason.

 

[DustinY]

I've "re-conditioned" a couple of my knives for customers in the past, at no charge. I think I even covered return shipping in one instance where the customer wasn't local. One guy had left his knife in a cup of bleach over night after using it to scrape out a shitter tank. I took the scales off, re-ground the entire knife, and put the scales back on. More recently, I had a guy ask me to clean one up that looked like somebody else had tried to sharpen it on a bench grinder. I re-ground the blade, cleaned up the handle, and re-molded the kydex.

Now, under no circumstances was I "obligated" to do anything for either knife, as it was user error in both cases, but I did so because I had some spare time and a kind heart.

I've never put anything in writing, but I'll usually tell people that their knives have a "lifetime warranty" based on whoever dies first: (me or them), and that I'll sharpen or clean it up for that duration as long as they cover shipping costs. That said, it's at my discretion, especially while I have the time and energy to do so. If I start making 100+ knives per year and get weekly requests to re-handle or clean up a knife, chances are I'll revise my "policy", but I do try to take care of all of my customers within reason.

This was a concern too - at what point is it almost not feasible. But I think lifetime warranty is good, I like the idea of printing a care sheet out documenting it so people understand, I know people that abuse their shit - wouldn’t hurt to lay some ground work ha.

 

[Alex T.]

I also print a care sheet where everything about the knife is written (steel, handle material, hardness, weight, etc). It also has the informations of how to care for the knife and what it should and should not do, like don't try to cut bricks, chop down a huge tree, no dishwasher, etc. I also put what I recommend as products to take care of their knife + link to said product. I also guarantee the knife for life for it's intended and proper use. Customer also has 2 days upon receiving the knife to send it back to me at no cost if he doesn't like it so he can be refunded.

 

[Horsewright]

I fix em for my lifetime. I've replaced knives if some one looses one out of my sheaths too. Overall very few repairs or replacements:

Lawnmower:

The edge of the blade was deflected slightly and I was able to straighten/sharpen it back to good to go:

New puppy:

If ya start on the blade end like that, a guy would pretty much think that that would be self corrective behavior.

Dropping mammoth tooth onto a concrete floor ain't good:

Grind mammoth tooth chunks up, mix with dyed resin and apply:

Loose your knife in the cattle corrals. Several months later your toddler daughter finds a stick sticking up out of the mud and gives it to ya:

Yeah I just fix em if they break em. Do charge em though if it ain't my knife:

 

[DustinY]

I also print a care sheet where everything about the knife is written (steel, handle material, hardness, weight, etc). It also has the informations of how to care for the knife and what it should and should not do, like don't try to cut bricks, chop down a huge tree, no dishwasher, etc. I also put what I recommend as products to take care of their knife + link to said product. I also guarantee the knife for life for it's intended and proper use. Customer also has 2 days upon receiving the knife to send it back to me at no cost if he doesn't like it so he can be refunded.

I like the refund policy, will definitely be implementing that I think - or some element of it.

 

[DustinY]

I fix em for my lifetime. I've replaced knives if some one looses one out of my sheaths too. Overall very few repairs or replacements:

Lawnmower:

The edge of the blade was deflected slightly and I was able to straighten/sharpen it back to good to go:

New puppy:

If ya start on the blade end like that, a guy would pretty much think that that would be self corrective behavior.

Dropping mammoth tooth onto a concrete floor ain't good:

Grind mammoth tooth chunks up, mix with dyed resin and apply:

Loose your knife in the cattle corrals. Several months later your toddler daughter finds a stick sticking up out of the mud and gives it to ya:

Yeah I just fix em if they break em. Do charge em though if it ain't my knife:

What a great collection of mishaps, wow. Thanks for the input - I think it’s quite admirable because I know the sheer numbers you work in. Awesome stuff, I hope to mirror the dedication you have.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I have fixed or replaced at no cost every knife brought back to me. It was almost always from misuse or an accident. The ones that were use so much the handles were dull and the edge blunt were simple touch-ups. The customers were always very pleased and came back for more knives later on. Here are some use/care/warranty sheets I have used. I have a more detailed sheet on my other computer at home:

Jess and Tony

Your knives are fine tools, and will serve you for years.

Quality tools should be used for the purpose they were intended to do. These were made to cut meat, veggies, and soft things.

Fine quality knives can last hundreds of years, and in Japan are considered family heirlooms.

About Your Knives:

The blades are made of high grade Hitachi cutlery steel. The sides are covered with layers of stainless steel, and the cutting edge is VG-10. This type of construction is called suminagashi. The large knife is called a “Yanagi-ba“, which means “willow blade“. It is used for slicing. The small knife is called a “petty“, which is a utility blade. The handle style is called “wa” , and is very comfortable to use.

The handles are stabilized maple burl wood with ebony bolsters.

Cleaning and Care:

When done with the knife rinse, wipe clean, and dry. As soon as practical, wash it off by hand and dry. DO NOT PUT IN THE DISHWASHER. When not in use, put away in a safe place.

These knives should be sharpened by hand. They have very fine edges, which should be sharpened at 10°. The yanagi-ba is only sharpened from the front side. I can show you how to sharpen the yanagi-ba. I will be glad to re-sharpen these knives or repair any nicks in the blade as needed.

CAUTION:

These knives are VERY SHARP. They will cut faster than any knife you have ever used. Be very careful when using them until you get used to how sharp they are.

Lifetime Warranty:

I will be glad to sharpen or repair the blades, or buff the handle as long as I am able to still use tools.

Stacy E, Apelt, FSA Scot

_________________October 12, 2013


Here is another:

Knife Type – 7” Petty and 4.5” Usuba

Blade Material – Delbert Ealy damascus – Leopard pattern

Handle Material - Lace Sheoak from Queensland, Australia

Handle Shape – Basic Japanese “wa” shape for multi grip.

Made in 2017, by Stacy E. Apelt – Bladesmith

Simple and Clear Warranty:

You do your part - Hand wash after use and dry well. Do not put in dishwasher. Use for cutting meats and fish. Don’t use as a pry bar or screwdriver. Treated right it should last for decades.

The bade is high carbon steel and will rust if left wet or exposed to food acids and not cleaned. After washing, dry well and place in a safe place where it will not get wet or splashed on. A light oiling with vegetable oil will aid in keeping the blade rust free. If any light rust or spots form on the blade, it can be removed with a Scotch-Brite pad or 4/0 steel wool. DO NOT sand blade with sandpaper to remove rust.

The blades have been etched in acid to form a dark patina. This is an oxide layer that protects the blade from rust and spotting to some degree. The darkness may wear in spots due to use, but will darken again in time. It can be hastened by rubbing mustard or lemon juice on the blade and letting it sit for half an hour. Repeat as needed to get a darkened blade. Wash off well and dry, then oil.

I’ll do my part – If the blade dulls with use, I will re-sharpen it. If the handle ever needs re-finishing due to wear, I will gladly sand and re-buff it. If the edge gets nicked due to accident, I will restore the edge. If the blade or handle breaks due to normal use, I will replace or repair the knife.


___________________________________________Date______________

 

[mooniesdl3]

Unfortunately my wife is an Insurance Agent and a CRM (Certified Risk Manager). She only sees the liability of selling knives, says it opens us up for litigation if a knife I make breaks and hurts someone, or even if someone hurts themselves with a knife I make and decide to sue...

No talking her out of it, I've tried lol.

 

[DustinY]

Unfortunately my wife is an Insurance Agent and a CRM (Certified Risk Manager). She only sees the liability of selling knives, says it opens us up for litigation if a knife I make breaks and hurts someone, or even if someone hurts themselves with a knife I make and decide to sue...

No talking her out of it, I've tried lol.

I wonder what people & large companies / manufacturers do to mitigate this? Seems almost like no one is stupid enough to do that and try to blame the knife.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

This has been discussed ad nauseum and the consensus of everyone, including lawyers, is that you are safe from a suit due to a user injuring themselves from a knife you made. There must be twenty older threads covering it, as well as knife laws discussions in magazines sand online.

 

[milkbaby]

I have fixed or replaced at no cost every knife brought back to me. It was almost always from misuse or an accident. The ones that were use so much the handles were dull and the edge blunt were simple touch-ups. The customers were always very pleased and came back for more knives later on. Here are some use/care/warranty sheets I have used. I have a more detailed sheet on my other computer at home:

Jess and Tony

Your knives are fine tools, and will serve you for years.

Quality tools should be used for the purpose they were intended to do. These were made to cut meat, veggies, and soft things.

Fine quality knives can last hundreds of years, and in Japan are considered family heirlooms.

About Your Knives:

The blades are made of high grade Hitachi cutlery steel. The sides are covered with layers of stainless steel, and the cutting edge is VG-10. This type of construction is called suminagashi. The large knife is called a “Yanagi-ba“, which means “willow blade“. It is used for slicing. The small knife is called a “petty“, which is a utility blade. The handle style is called “wa” , and is very comfortable to use.

The handles are stabilized maple burl wood with ebony bolsters.

Cleaning and Care:

When done with the knife rinse, wipe clean, and dry. As soon as practical, wash it off by hand and dry. DO NOT PUT IN THE DISHWASHER. When not in use, put away in a safe place.

These knives should be sharpened by hand. They have very fine edges, which should be sharpened at 10°. The yanagi-ba is only sharpened from the front side. I can show you how to sharpen the yanagi-ba. I will be glad to re-sharpen these knives or repair any nicks in the blade as needed.

CAUTION:

These knives are VERY SHARP. They will cut faster than any knife you have ever used. Be very careful when using them until you get used to how sharp they are.

Lifetime Warranty:

I will be glad to sharpen or repair the blades, or buff the handle as long as I am able to still use tools.

Stacy E, Apelt, FSA Scot

_________________October 12, 2013


Here is another:

Knife Type – 7” Petty and 4.5” Usuba

Blade Material – Delbert Ealy damascus – Leopard pattern

Handle Material - Lace Sheoak from Queensland, Australia

Handle Shape – Basic Japanese “wa” shape for multi grip.

Made in 2017, by Stacy E. Apelt – Bladesmith

Simple and Clear Warranty:

You do your part - Hand wash after use and dry well. Do not put in dishwasher. Use for cutting meats and fish. Don’t use as a pry bar or screwdriver. Treated right it should last for decades.

The bade is high carbon steel and will rust if left wet or exposed to food acids and not cleaned. After washing, dry well and place in a safe place where it will not get wet or splashed on. A light oiling with vegetable oil will aid in keeping the blade rust free. If any light rust or spots form on the blade, it can be removed with a Scotch-Brite pad or 4/0 steel wool. DO NOT sand blade with sandpaper to remove rust.

The blades have been etched in acid to form a dark patina. This is an oxide layer that protects the blade from rust and spotting to some degree. The darkness may wear in spots due to use, but will darken again in time. It can be hastened by rubbing mustard or lemon juice on the blade and letting it sit for half an hour. Repeat as needed to get a darkened blade. Wash off well and dry, then oil.

I’ll do my part – If the blade dulls with use, I will re-sharpen it. If the handle ever needs re-finishing due to wear, I will gladly sand and re-buff it. If the edge gets nicked due to accident, I will restore the edge. If the blade or handle breaks due to normal use, I will replace or repair the knife.


___________________________________________Date______________

These are great examples for the OP, but I do wonder if you only offer this warranty to people named Jess and Tony.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Yes, most all my customers are named Jess and Tony. They all buy japanese kitchen knives, too.

On the rare few occasions where someone with a different name buys a knife, I peresonaliaze the info/care/waranty sheet for each knife and person.

 

[P.Brewster]

My experience is: most complaints are basically just people making noise who have no intentions of actually sending the item back; their goal is to make a stink and hope you'll offer some kind of concession. If you make it clear that your remedy process BEGINS upon receipt of the problematic item (at the buyer's expense), then you filter out these cases.