Was it a dream?

[Runs With Scissors]

churning through my memories and considering the some of the precious fragments I retain of my misspent youth I've come across a slightly troubling issue.

I remember growing up as a kid in small town Georgia making the big drive to the nearest Wal-Mart in Newnan. I recall listening to the radio, and hearing them talking and expressing great concern about Farm Aid, and Americans losing jobs to labor overseas as a whole.

I remember walking through the doors of Wal-Mart and seeing American flags hanging every where, and "BUY AMERICAN!" signs hanging off several walls.

I drove my poor mother nuts when it was time for back to school shopping. I wouldn't wear ANYTHING that wasn't American made. It set a high standard, but was doable, even for a twelve year old kid and an exasperated mother. Bear in mind this was well before the time of the internet for most of us.

The country music stations were playing alot patriotic songs, we all said the pledge in school, and nobody cried out against it. (or at least not loud enough for us to hear or care)

I remember a country facing some tough times, but everyone was cinching up thier belts, rallying together, and doing something about it, and by God, it seems somewhere along the line there was a little headway made.

I swear I remember these things. or do I? was it the overactive imagination of a kid? no one I talk to seems to remember. They give me strange looks, vague answers and shrugs when I mention these memories and that it seems most everything we buy comes from China now. They seem indifferent to the thought of fellow Americans losing thier jobs, and our country becoming a nation of consumers rather than producers.

If that jingoistic surge that I recall ever really did happen, what the heck went wrong, and why won't it happen again?

Did everyone just shrug thier shoulders, give up, and walk away?
is everyone so eager to save a nickel or two that they just don't care?
have we become generally callous, or ignorant?
how do you see our future as a nation regarding this trend?
Am I nuts, and gettin' worked up over nothing?

Please bear in mind that I'm not expressing concern about the knives we collect, or miscellaneous outdoor gear. I'm referring to the every day stuff here. shoes, clothes, pocket calculators, hair dryers, etc. The items we use for day to day life, and can't seem to be found without a "Made in China" stamp or sticker. In all honesty, I don't think all our French, German, Swedish,and HI knives put together are even a blip on the radar to anyone but us, and the few families supported by making them.

I guess I'm already thinking about Christmas and all that's related. we tried hard to buy American whenever we could last Christmas, and found it to be flat out impossible about ninety percent of the time. We'd pick through stacks of products just looking for something that wasn't made in China. This year we're trying to make handmade gifts for everyone. Knives, dreamcatchers, coasters, wooden bowls, etc.

Sorry if this is the wrong forum these days. It's just kind of something that's been rattling in my head for awhile, and to me, much more emotional than political in it's nature.

 

[Bladite]

it's hard to buy american, when even things you think are made her, are made in part overseas, or at best are assembled here.

take harley motorcycles for example. new ones are not 100% authentic amercian. people who buy into the marketing however, that harley is 100% american don't want to hear the facts.

steel? make knives? where's the good steel coming from these days. is the price as good as importing?

food... we've gotten used to non seasonal foods year round. grown in chile. grown in new zealand. i for one like the fact my apples only come in the fall, and then they're gone. oranges from FLA or CA as appropriate. canned items suffice. then spring, and new crops.

computer parts? video games? USA used to be tops, now it's not. what can you do? not buy them?

wait, how about that income... if you have one. might have been downsized, or had 1/2 your technology sold overseas... and now you are taking in less money due to voluntary reductions or lose your job. now saving those nickels and dimes might actually be required. sure, some people could go out and reinvent themselves, make more money to compensate, or restructure their lives to live on less. most can't.

so... consider it evolution in action, i can't say if it's good or bad. voting with your wallet seems to be impossible too. i can't say i've seen that trick work.

mall wart is just a symptom and or opportunist filling in a niche that is there because the large corporations/government have made it so. i submit it's patriotic to therefore buy into it and not waste money. small joke.

bladite

 

[munk]

RWS;

Great post. Well written; and if that's in the wrong forum I don't know where our forum is.

I remember. We had a lot of "made in Japan" until Taiwan and China got into it.

I'm hoping after it 'levels out', (third World Nations ascending, modern nations descending) our decline will stop.


munk

 

[Eric_425]

+1 to bladite. But I think people will start complaining when the "good" white collar jobs start going overseas. Right now, as long it's just the low end work that's being sent over, people will be happy to save some cents and don't really care that it's harder for the kids to find part time work.

 

[Kevin the grey]

I think that is a war lost . I do not think it is wrong to battle on . I think we have to reinvent ourselves . Consumer ? Producer ? Is that all there is ?
I know its a basic fact of life . Life is changing or at least we are .

We have to find something that can,t be outsourced . Something that requires our particular advantages .

 

[Steely_Gunz]

I don't understand global politics in any shape or form, but from what I have gathered, we really have shifted into the "information age" over the "industrial age". Producing is not the end all like it was. It used to be that everything that was anything was tangible. If you had 5 apples, then you had 5 apples. If you sold 5 apples at 5 cents a piece then you had no apples and a quarter in your pocket to buy more apples to sell. Producing the most amount of apples for the lowest price and selling them for the most profit the market will allow was the way to win the game.
Now you don't NEED any apples, just something to get the people to come to you to look at the ads about apples around your webpage. Heck, you don't even NEED any real over-head. Look at Google. I has an office building and some sort of employee pool. Nothing spectacular....It is worth over 100 billion (with a B, folks) dollars. It just bought the website YouTube for 1.6 billion (again with a B). YouTube has no place, no office, no liquid assets. However, it just made two guys that ran it out of a garage richer than they can probably comprehend.
Having things made locally is important. It is an outlet of pride and is good to hone the skills of hand and heart that forged this great nation. Tradition does matter. Also, we must stay in the game of manufacturing to some degree. It is far too important to lose our way and be totally at the mercy of strict industry. However, we need not make every screw and widget to stay the top dog. In the global economy that the world has taken on in this new information age, it is not that important who MADE the chess the pieces, but it is critical to be the one that MOVES the pieces. This is evident in the careful and dangerous game we play with the oil markets in the Mid-East and with Loony Mr. Chavez. It's not all about the oil itself, it's about the currency used to gauge its worth...the US dollar.
Information, services, and technological exploration is going to make or break this or the next super-power...from what I have heard.
On a somewhat related note, it does sadden me to see what Wal Mart has become. From shining example of the capitalistic success story of crafting every-man's store....to the ultimate globalization and meizering and bullying and screwing for the best bottom line. I don't go their any more if i can help it. 'Tis an odd place. I wear my tin-foil cap to keep the Wal-Martians out of brain so that they can't bombard my fragile little mind with their "BUY CHEAP CRAP" montra

Jake

 

[namaarie]

I shop not-walmart whenever I can. That said, that is a difficult task in small town Iowa. Need some shampoo on a Saturday evening? How about a heating pad for one's Back. Unfortunately, it's gonna be Chinese Walmart crap.

You know, I would like to be optimistic about this, but I'm not sure how to be. China keeps growing in importance and economic prowess and dynamism. We keep slipping. It's not my place to say who or what is to blame, but there are surely many, many factors involved. One way or the other, you have a good point, my friend.

Chris

 

[Bladite]

+1 to bladite. But I think people will start complaining when the "good" white collar jobs start going overseas. Right now, as long it's just the low end work that's being sent over, people will be happy to save some cents and don't really care that it's harder for the kids to find part time work.

start? happened 10 years ago, and has been on going... however, some companies have felt the backlash... and are cancelling it.

however, it still cracks my bacon when companies import "slaves" from overseas, for the promise of money, work their asses off, and then send them home. they can hire 5 to 1 it seems like. the work is often crap, they don't care. do it, get it done, next project.

the idea of craft and wizardry in software and coding these days is a lost art. the big buys just don't care. there are isolated cases... but mostly, crap.

crap crap crap crap crap. so much software is CRAP. i count my lucky starz that my computer even boots. really. i have 2 GB of ram on my machine, and the web-browser of the days need over 1/2 that sheesh.

anyway, how about them knives?

bladite

 

[munk]

I have a Chinese cleaver that's pretty good. Sigh.


It weighs 30 ounces and has a german name printed on it.
It's a little crooked, so I sent it back. The replacement was not crooked, but it had a soft edge. I sent it back, paid the postage, and got my original, hard edged but crooked cleaver back.


munk

 

[Bill Marsh]

I have a Chinese cleaver that's pretty good. Sigh.


It weighs 30 ounces and has a german name printed on it.
It's a little crooked, so I sent it back. The replacement was not crooked, but it had a soft edge. I sent it back, paid the postage, and got my original, hard edged but crooked cleaver back.


munk

The Chinese and Japaness products have gotten better. Hopefully we got better after after the Japanese whomped us in the 1970s. Copiers and cars -- more. Remember when Canon and Mita came in and took away Xerox domination by building copiers that just plain did not break?.

Anybody here have a Honda? Car or motorcycle, They keep running, I have a 1988 Honda Shadow MC. All I have ever put on it is tires and an occasional bettery, should I tell you about my buddy who bought a Harley that same year?

But I won't even talk about the Chinese fake sword makers. Chinese fake Coca Cola and fake Marlboro cigarettes.....

We have gotten better also. Competition makes us stronger.

The thing I regert is not the products. I regret the deterioration in values, standards, morals --- a lot of the social structures that made us great.

We are, unquestionably, the greatest nation on the earth, ever and still.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on the matter. I truly appreciate the insight and perspectives you all have to offer.

Munk, thanks for the kind words. As much as I enjoy your own threads, your words mean alot to me. It's also nice to know I'm not imagining things. At least if I AM insane, I can rest assured that I'm not hallucinating yet.

In my own sentiment I really don't know that I can believe there's much more than consumption and production when it comes down to it.

Maybe I've had a bit too much Alaskan influence. In many of the old native tribes when an elder got too old and consumed more than they produced they took a long walk and died in the cold. It wasn't a matter of malice, it was simply survival of the tribe. On the flipside, the member of the tribes who could produce the most food, shelter, clothing, or could heal were the most treasured members of a tribe. Now consider that analogy on a global level. In both national and personal terms of production and advancement I believe you're either moving ahead or falling behind. If you think you're sitting still and everythings fine, you'd best take a long hard look at the things around you and think again.

I myself don't believe we need every minute item produced in the US, but I do believe that we should be able to maintain basic self support as a nation, should it become necessary.

I don't have a problem with imports altogether, but when it comes to giving money to other countries there should be a hierarchy followed according to which countries are the least likely or capable of inflicting harm on the US.
Do you think China or Pakistan would rate highly on that list?

Market competition is a good thing regarding designs and innovation. When Japanese cars first came to the US they didn't clone the Ford Falcon out of inferior materials and sell it for cheaper, they introduced an entirely different type of car.

I wonder what US unemployment records would reveal if one were to compare the mid 80's to today? One could easily state, and quite possibly be correct that we're becoming more technologically oriented.

Of course, On the other hand, it's awful hard to call someone for tech support anymore and not have your phone call routed to India...

 

[Astrodada]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on the matter. I truly appreciate the insight and perspectives you all have to offer.

Munk, thanks for the kind words. As much as I enjoy your own threads, your words mean alot to me. It's also nice to know I'm not imagining things. At least if I AM insane, I can rest assured that I'm not hallucinating yet.

In my own sentiment I really don't know that I can believe there's much more than consumption and production when it comes down to it.

Maybe I've had a bit too much Alaskan influence. In many of the old native tribes when an elder got too old and consumed more than they produced they took a long walk and died in the cold. It wasn't a matter of malice, it was simply survival of the tribe. On the flipside, the member of the tribes who could produce the most food, shelter, clothing, or could heal were the most treasured members of a tribe. Now consider that analogy on a global level. In both national and personal terms of production and advancement I believe you're either moving ahead or falling behind. If you think you're sitting still and everythings fine, you'd best take a long hard look at the things around you and think again.

I myself don't believe we need every minute item produced in the US, but I do believe that we should be able to maintain basic self support as a nation, should it become necessary.

I don't have a problem with imports altogether, but when it comes to giving money to other countries there should be a hierarchy followed according to which countries are the least likely or capable of inflicting harm on the US.
Do you think China or Pakistan would rate highly on that list?

Market competition is a good thing regarding designs and innovation. When Japanese cars first came to the US they didn't clone the Ford Falcon out of inferior materials and sell it for cheaper, they introduced an entirely different type of car.

I wonder what US unemployment records would reveal if one were to compare the mid 80's to today? One could easily state, and quite possibly be correct that we're becoming more technologically oriented.

Of course, On the other hand, it's awful hard to call someone for tech support anymore and not have your phone call routed to India...

The US is the most productive crop grower of the world.

The africans are starving.

Glogbolization is the word....but some are still starving more because of that idea.