Washboard free hand sharpening system - first impression

Eytan (Ethan) K

Eytan (Ethan) K

Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
459
Hello everyone,
Below is a brief video review of the "washboard freehand sharpening system"
You are more than welcome to watch and comment :p

Thanks.

[video=youtube;9LA8H2yTMIM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LA8H2yTMIM[/video]
 
Nice work. I have a washboard but never used it in that particular manner. I will have to give your method a try.
 
Eytan,

Glad its proving useful. I have a few observations that could be helpful, will jot em down for you.

Martin
 
Old school back and forth. One swipe each side. I really use it mostly as a touch up strop using just the computer paper. It can really perk up an edge.
 
Eytan,


I hope its OK if I make a couple of suggestions/observations based on the video.

The rubber treads work a lot better on wood than on some countertop materials. I use mine on a cutting board in the kitchen, and in the shop I put it on the same cedar board I use for my waterstones, it stays put a lot better.

Another thought, the shims are the same size as common 1.5"x .25" welding flat stock available at many hardware stores. Substituting the wooden ones for steel will make the board a lot more stable under energetic use. Be careful if adopting this as they also will not stay put in the slots - unlike wood they have no inherent compressibility, so when you lift the block up they fall right out no matter how well they are shimmed, and can injure feet or damage countertop surfaces ( I initially considered including a set with the kit but drove up shipping costs and increase likelihood of damage). I just use mine with the wood bases.

The original block had no provision for mounting the papers, one just made hard creases and wrapped it around the block - you might give this a try if it keeps sliding around on you. I only added the mounting scheme due to customer feedback - some folks were struggling with getting the paper tight enough - and to make mounting of polyester films more reliable.

I'd encourage you to use more/thicker shim stock on the wedges - played out 320 grit wet/dry works great for this - trim to 2.125" and will be the same dimension as the heavy paper shims it came with. Use the abrasive side facing the shim. It doesn't matter if the shim seats all the way into the slot as long as its even. A more snug fit on the shims will draw the wet/dry and copy paper tighter and eliminate any side to side wobble at the same time. Tighter is better as long as you aren't reaching for something to hammer them in, as tight as you can get it by hand. The wood shims should stay firmly in place if the board is picked up by the top.


Also, do not shy away from putting a little extra force on the paper with compound - 2-3 times what you would use for the wet/dry. It won't round over like ordinary strop, and will rapidly refine/recondition the edge. If stopping at 320 or 800 is a good idea to burnish strop the edge on plain paper, especially on steels like Aus8 and common kitchen cutlery. Use the same as your grind angle and again, a bit more force than the wet/dry. Anything that does not have high carbide content will respond very well and you will immediately notice the improvement in cutting.

If the board sounds different from one side to the other or pronounced chattering as you go, is letting you know you're changing your angles or riding the outside long edge of the board.

A last thought (I cannot tell from the video, you may already be doing this) is to emphasize the trailing component of a scrubbing technique. In the same way this reduces gouging on softer waterstones, it will tear out fewer abrasives when using wet/dry or films and the materials will last longer.

Thanks again and glad its proving useful,
Martin
 
Hi,
What does "very cheap" mean to you in US dollars?
That stack of sandpapers, how many did you have and what did they cost?
 
bucketstove said:
Hi,
What does "very cheap" mean to you in US dollars?
That stack of sandpapers, how many did you have and what did they cost?
Click to expand...


Hi,
I do a lot of blade sharpening\polishing, That stack does not represent the amount that the ordinary person need.
I think I got there from 40 grit up to 2000, around 120 sheets in total; they cost me dollar +- per sheet.

If we compare the 'Washbaord' system to water stones, it is a cheap item.
simple set the water stones (220, 1000, 4000) will cost around 100-120 dollars ; If it is set higher quality stones and with extensive coverage of grit levels (like the 'Washbaord') it can cost hundreds of US dollars.
 
Eytan (Ethan) K said:
Hi,
If we compare the 'Washbaord' system to water stones, it is a cheap item.
simple set the water stones (220, 1000, 4000) will cost around 100-120 dollars ; If it is set higher quality stones and with extensive coverage of grit levels (like the 'Washbaord') it can cost hundreds of US dollars.
Click to expand...
:) where?
You can get a set like that on ebay/amazon for the price of the washboard
For example, 8"x21/2"x1" king 800/4000 can be bought for $24-$36
there are lots of other combinations to be had for under or around $20
250/1000 600/1500 2000/5000 3000/8000

If you're willing to buy edge pro sized water stones you can get a set including 180 400 1k 1.5k 3k 4k for under $10
 
I answered in red

bucketstove said:
:) where?
You can get a set like that on ebay/amazon for the price of the washboard
For example, 8"x21/2"x1" king 800/4000 can be bought for $24-$36 Amazon is great place to buy
there are lots of other combinations to be had for under or around $20
250/1000 600/1500 2000/5000 3000/8000 King\sun tiger is 'Economic' brand of whetstones I would recommend; 20$ King\sun tiger are 45 series, the smaller stones. All those 3000\8000 budget stones that cost 12$ or 20$ are mostly from unknown brands.

If you're willing to buy edge pro sized water stones you can get a set including 180 400 1k 1.5k 3k 4k for under $10 I didn't mention guided sharpening systems on purpose: They don't have the flexibly of free hand sharpening, they are very limited and costly (the originals not Chinese knockoff); you cant sharpen convex ebge, long blades are challenging, hawks, tools - VERY challenging.
Click to expand...
 
Nice review. Makes me want one even more now. :)

Have you tried shelf liner on your table top to keep the washboard in place? I'm talking about the rubberized sheets that look like a bunch of "dots" stuck together. They tend to stick to most surfaces mildly and keep things from sliding around. I'm talking about something like this:

10025888ProGripShelfLinerBlk_600.jpg


Brian.
 
I feel compelled to throw in a few thoughts on the relative value.

I'm not knocking other sharpening strategies or accessories. I own a large variety of benchstones, as well as two powered systems. I use all of them for sharpening in addition to my Washboard. They all have their pros and cons and there is no single solution for every sharpening task - the reason there are so many sharpening tools available in the first place. That said, the Washboard has a bunch going for it. I apologize for the long winded post but I don't pitch this widget too hard, preferring folk find their way to it in their own good time if curious, and if not is OK too. I'm obviously not on the forum just to promote myself. The question of value has never really been directed at it before either, so I apologize again if this thread isn't the place for a line by line.

Features:
You can put a huge variety of bonded abrasives on it as long as the backing is thin stock, and have a strong commonality of tactile feedback. The diamond films feel like the fine wet/dry feels like the paper with compound, feels like the AlumOx. All of them producing strong tactile feedback. While these materials have limitations compared to other abrasive surfaces, they also have some considerable bonuses as well.

A sheet of wet/dry can be had for .50 or less, will last a couple dozen sharpenings if used carefully. A piece of diamond film can last several times that if not longer. I seldom replace sheets of wet/dry due to abrasive failure, most often they get crumpled or lost in the chaotic mess that is my workshop, and I grab a fresh sheet out of convenience. For the average user it is plenty economical, for the casual user it is an even better value. It compares very well to the cost of belts for smaller grinding systems, and if run out to include a variety of grit options over a reasonable period of time, it compares well to many stone types.

Unlike using these over glass or a steel plate, the teeth on the WB reduce the amount of give bonded abrasives experience. This results in a flatter ground surface with these materials even with more applied force = greater user margin of error (though one should use the least possible in any event). This reduced amount of inherent give falls within most folks margin of freehand error - combined with tactile boost most will find their edge deviation off these materials will be no greater than they experience off a vitreous stone or soft waterstone, with the convenience of a bonded abrasive. It isn't just for convex edges.

Unlike a waterstone, it never dishes - I read on the internet somewhere a dished waterstone can add over 4 degrees to one's apex angle!

It gives a constant tactile reference for finding the apex , increasing at fine abrasive levels - the exact opposite of most stone types that see the amount of tactile feedback drop off considerably at higher grit values.

As a strop it induces rounding to negligible amounts, greatly expanding the lifecycle of a stropped edge before needing to be taken back to a fixed abrasive compared to most other strop materials. Allows a greater range of operator error without pressure related trouble. Swaps out easily without need for cleaning the strop surface or worrying about cross contamination. Comes with its own honing compound formulated for paper. The final edge finish can be easily customized and maintained almost indefinitely. Improvised honing compounds such as reclaimed SiC grit or waterstone mud work far better with the WB and paper than they do off paper over a flat surface or on most other strop surfaces for that matter.

As a testament to how hard it makes the surface of a sheet of paper and how incompressible the "strop" surface is, it can actually burnish low carbide stainless and carbon steels to a finer edge using plastic flow. While burnishing with a 'steel' can trash the edge with one or two errant passes, with the WB you get a usable margin of error. True the effect is not on the order of a smooth steel, but well in the usable/useful range nonetheless.

The whole thing is lightweight, travels easily, stores easily, is not a problem if it freezes.

Compare the cost of the Washboard to some of the pre-made strop paddles, the cost of an adjustable waterstone holder or a waterstone flattening plate.

There are literally hundreds if not thousands of options for sharpening, some of which are described on this forum continuously, many of which I have and use. The WB compares very well to many other mid-cost sharpening strategies out there, and I'll refund your money minus return shipping cost if you decide it isn't working for you. Since offering them I have refunded one, while repeat sales keep coming in (got another one this week - thanks again!) - including many multiple purchases as current owners buy them for gifts. Does it do anything that cannot ultimately be achieved thru other means? NO, but then there is not a single sharpening strategy out there capable of claiming that either. If I lost all my gear tomorrow but for my Washboard, it would be a long time before I'd buy anything more than some wet/dry and lapping film.

Martin
 
bgentry said:
Nice review. Makes me want one even more now. :)

Have you tried shelf liner on your table top to keep the washboard in place? I'm talking about the rubberized sheets that look like a bunch of "dots" stuck together. They tend to stick to most surfaces mildly and keep things from sliding around. I'm talking about something like this:

10025888ProGripShelfLinerBlk_600.jpg


Brian.
Click to expand...

Brian, you'd be better off with a scuffed up piece of wood, or better yet the 1/8" recycled rubber sheeting that is starting to show up roll form in some of the big box stores. many of the shelf liners are a bit too spongy.
 
Martin,

Top benefit I get from usage are (in no particular order):
- Less rounding when used as strop
- Increase tactile feddback, and getting stronger in finer grit vs usually less
- Never dishes

Like Eytan said, getting ALL the grit at that size (not mini stones), and at adequate quality stones will definitely be much more costly. For people like me who lives overseas., shipping cost of your set is definitely much lower than shipping various stones (imagine the packaging and bumper required).

All in all, a mid range package of good sharpening system.
:thumbup:
 
HeavyHanded said:
Brian, you'd be better off with a scuffed up piece of wood, or better yet the 1/8" recycled rubber sheeting that is starting to show up roll form in some of the big box stores. many of the shelf liners are a bit too spongy.
Click to expand...

I've been extremely happy with using shelf liner for various sharpening tasks. Though I generally use a rubber stone holder for big stones and plates. I mostly use shelf liner under big surfaces that tend to slide. Like my world famous cookie sheet that I use to catch the dust from my Work Sharp Ken Onion! :)

A rubber sheet sounds like a good tool to have for this type of thing though.

Brian.
 
Eytan (Ethan) K said:
Hello everyone,
Below is a brief video review of the "washboard freehand sharpening system"
You are more than welcome to watch and comment :p

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Here's my comment. 21+ minutes is not a "brief" video. No thanks. Based on the length alone, I won't be watching it.

I wonder what this guy considers a long video?
 
I have a Washboard and think it is a great system for people that are really into sharpening.
It is versitile, lightweight, not very expensive.

Most times I use mine with paper and compound and it does a great job stropping and refining my edges.
It isn't something I would recommend to a non knife nut but for us it is an excellent tool to fiddle with.
 
Eytan (Ethan) K said:
I answered in red
Click to expand...
:)
That is not the preferred way , the forums quote functionality will not include that when you hit quote button, and everything is in italics

Eytan (Ethan) K said:
20$ King\sun tiger are 45 series, the smaller stones.
Click to expand...
I mentioned K-80 , which is 8 inch by 2.5 inch by 1 inch
The other stone I had in mind was KW-65 which is 7.25 inch by 2.5 inch by 1 inch
Or old style King KDS 1000/6000 which is 8.28 inch by 2.64inch by 1.44 inch

Like I said, that is two options for a waterstone set
If you're willing to use a coarse stone that is not a waterstone
For same price as a washboard you could buy

Winco 120/240 grit 12 inch by 2.5 inch by 1.5 inch
And a new style for harder steels King KDS 1000/6000 8.28 inch by 2.64inch by 1.44 inch

So definitely not cheaper than "waterstones"

Eytan (Ethan) K said:
All those 3000\8000 budget stones that cost 12$ or 20$ are mostly from unknown brands.
Click to expand...
:) you didn't say that before
Why is it important that the brands are "known"?
Its easy to argue those brands are more "known", the price is low they must sell many :D

Eytan (Ethan) K said:
I didn't mention guided sharpening systems on purpose: They don't have the flexibly of free hand sharpening, they are very limited and costly (the originals not Chinese knockoff); you cant sharpen convex ebge, long blades are challenging, hawks, tools - VERY challenging.
Click to expand...

Neither did I :) I only mentioned the stones,
which you can buy without the system,
but even if you bought them with the system,
you can still use them freehand as they're not glued to the system
so they do have the flexibility of free hand sharpening
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top