Washboard start to finish vs Cold Steel Recon

HeavyHanded

HeavyHanded

Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
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Here's a few videos showing the Washboard as a complete system. I've mentioned before that I felt it worked better with wet/dry than a flat metal plate when freehand sharpening, and every time I use it I become more convinced. Is now officially for sale:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ning-System-for-sale!?p=12485464#post12485464


[video=youtube;pfhnuz4C0zk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfhnuz4C0zk[/video]

[video=youtube;G1qGE87OP9s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1qGE87OP9s[/video]

[video=youtube;fjKkuWdLT7M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjKkuWdLT7M[/video]

Thanks for taking a look - if you can't get enough of the deadpan mumbling and poor lighting you've come to expect from a HeavyHanded video, you're in luck!

HH

Edit to add a closer look at the board itself

IMG_0890_zpscde71e73.jpg
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
Good vids, good work and good food for thought, HH. :thumbup:


David :)
Click to expand...

Thanks David,
I have to get a better handle on the sound, maybe put a curved piece of material to catch it and send it up to the camera, or mic myself. Or better yet use a camera made in the last couple years:)

I made it mostly as a user's manual for the Washboard, but I think there's plenty in there that could help out a freehand newbie no matter what they're using.

Thanks for watching!

HH
 
Currently my internet is slow. Will download and watch later.

Congrats for the first batch! Looking forward for more ideas from other users .. :thumbup:
 
HeavyHanded has been a 'heavy' contributor in sharpening area, it's great to see offering of a versatile sharpening product on-the-cheap for sharpeners at all level:thumbup:

When time permits, HH please follow up with a few 800-1000 magnification images of pre/post of edges using this product.
 
bluntcut said:
HeavyHanded has been a 'heavy' contributor in sharpening area, it's great to see offering of a versatile sharpening product on-the-cheap for sharpeners at all level:thumbup:

When time permits, HH please follow up with a few 800-1000 magnification images of pre/post of edges using this product.
Click to expand...


Blunt, thanks for the kind words, you've been a big contributor yourself.

I'll try to get some before and after coming off the 600 grit paper, and maybe straight from the 320? Might have to stop at 640 though. My bottle of cedar oil is all dried up after someone tipped it over on my workbench (probably me :mad:). I've been filtering some castor oil through paper to use that for 1000x immersion microscopy, the oil I received as a replacement for the cedar oil isn't viscous enough to take good pics of knife edges. Castor oil works great for that, but is too cloudy out of the bottle. If that doesn't work I'll have to order more cedar oil.

HH
 
Congratulations to this awesome product Martin, thanks for sharing!!

Thanks to you all that contributed a ton to the sharpening community over the last while and I know how time consuming it actually is. I appreciate that a lot!! HH with your very own invention showing here and a lot of email communication with deep insight, bluntcut with the "edge leading burr file off", OwE for the edge-trailing advice start-finish, Chris "A" for mutual interest and great contributions and much more.

Keep it coming fellas !!
 
I second the microscopic pictures! Able to feel, replicate result and seeing it with 15x loupe can provides some learning, but seeing the microscopic view is better.

I still remember the 'steeling' thread ;)
 
You asked for it, you got it! Now its an old fashioned HeavyHanded thread, complete with pics! I couldn't say no to Bluntcut and Chris, and besides I've been meaning to get a look at this up close myself...

Fun stuff, I almost forgot how to use this thing. No 1000x images till I get some cedar oil, the castor oil was still a bit too cloudy though getting better - I'll have to filter it again (takes about a week for 4 ozs to drip through a paper filter).

Off to the races - all pics at 640x.
First one is off the 320 grit sandpaper, test knife is the younger cousin of the CS Recon from the video, a smaller Voyager - Aus8 flat grind. I did nothing to it coming off the sandpaper except to do the best job I could in terms of burr removal and a wipe on my pant leg. All methods etc are right outta the video.
WB_640_320_zpsd3faadab.jpg


Same edge after stropping on paper - noticeable improvement in cutting. A perfect hard-use edge or for utility cutting but doesn't really look different, maybe a touch more polished. Maybe there isn't much to this after all?
WB_640_320_Paper_zpsfb4d5cb6.jpg


On to the 600 grit sandpaper. I'm pretty sure I could go straight to the compound, but it would be a bit of extra work and my compound blocks are not that big, better to save it for better effect...Again, this was straight off the sandpaper - cutting even better than the 320 grit with paper stropping, at least in terms of fine cutting - will now crosscut paper noisily but confidently, still plenty of bite. A real good kitchen utility edge.
wb_640_600_zps0ce3da89.jpg


And after stropping with paper, about 30 passes with moderate pressure. This was a bit impressive. I expected a difference but not to this degree. The scratch pattern has been smoothed across the high points and the cutting edge has a burnished look very similar to a steeling right along the apex. A very nice jump up in cutting ability - now crosscutting paper quietly yet still plenty of 'catch' to the edge.

wb_640_600_Paper_zps05778188.jpg


On to the compound. Was wondering just how much more improvement I'd see with this compound - it is formulated for maintenance, not just a final caress. Another jump up in fine cutting yet still very three finger sticky. Now very close to my comfortable upper limit for EDU. Again, easily crosscutting paper with a whisper and cutting a circle no problem.

WB_640_Compound_zps4cdd6780.jpg


And after stropping with paper, again about 30 passes. Now feeling very sharp, cutting across my finger pads when I do a three finger test. Still feeling a bit of "drag" as it does so, I can make out the surface cuts - they'll be more visible tomorrow. Still some surface variation along the edge - this will last a while and be very sharp as it does so. For myself I'm not sure I'd bother with the paper stropping (and I usually don't) - plenty sharp without that extra step.

WB_640_Compound_Paper_zps8a1b60ca.jpg


And because when it feels that sharp I can't stop myself from pulling a hair outta my head...

WB_Whittlin_zpsa9ef4baf.jpg


"CLEAN UP YOUR EDGE!" (with a Washboard :))
 
Congratulations HeavyHanded (Martin, right?)! You've done it - edges produced by your product offering are clean and free of that 'lips' I refered to in your previous microscrope images in my 'bevel geometry cross-sectional' thread. I agree, these edges will satisfy 95+% of regular usage. Where a clean planar(2D) bevel intersect at the apex is exactly what will yield an effective function of catch+cut+tear through most materials. I am chasing 3D edges...

Much appreciated for taking your time produced these nice images!
 
Martin,

Just chanced to watch the video .. agree you'd need a better microphone ;). Without earphone, I'd lost some of your words .. but no problem, re-watch again later (with earphone of course :) )

Thank you again for the video, I learn more about listening and feeling the 'just right' angle. Will definitely try that some more. Defintely a must for anyone start learning freehand (whether with washboard or not, the concept behind holding angle, burr removal, etc. remains the same).

If you (and Mag) don't mind, post that video into Mag's sticky.
PS: using this tag will make it easier for people like me on Opera Mini:
["youtube]fjKkuWdLT7M[/"youtube] - remove the ", I can't make it appear otherwise.

Blunt,

Hope you'd start a new thread of the 3D .. want to understand better. I always have impression that apex is 2D meeting of the bevel.
(seems you're also night owling :D )
 
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I feel like a jerk for skimming this thread and avoiding the videos. :o
The ideas behind the washboard make sense and I love that you can easily hear the feedback.
I'm gonna keep watching the other videos. :)
 
Nullity said:
I feel like a jerk for skimming this thread and avoiding the videos. :o
The ideas behind the washboard make sense and I love that you can easily hear the feedback.
I'm gonna keep watching the other videos. :)
Click to expand...

LOL, I skip ALL videos the first go around myself! Sharpening videos can be quite uncomfortable to sit through even if you can learn a lot. I go back and watch after panning through and seeing if there's any new cut tests.:)

Its really is a cool little widget, you can hear what's going on but more importantly you can feel it. I have to 'step outside myself' a bit to notice that I now correct my mechanics without thinking. One of the folks that ordered one commented on how consistent my technique is in the video, when I was previewing it (and noticing how bad the sound quality is) I also wondered about that and how much was related to the Washboard. Quite a bit IMHO. I broke my mechanics down a while back to improve my angle control, but being able to hold the rake (angle of the blade relative to the path of the stroke) that well side to side is not something I've spent much time on. Pretty sure I'm correcting without conscious prompting based entirely on feel.

Was fun to do the pictures, and for anyone curious - I used the exact process from the video.
 
bluntcut said:
Congratulations HeavyHanded (Martin, right?)! You've done it - edges produced by your product offering are clean and free of that 'lips' I refered to in your previous microscrope images in my 'bevel geometry cross-sectional' thread. I agree, these edges will satisfy 95+% of regular usage. Where a clean planar(2D) bevel intersect at the apex is exactly what will yield an effective function of catch+cut+tear through most materials. I am chasing 3D edges...

Much appreciated for taking your time produced these nice images!
Click to expand...

You're very welcome, was a nice accompaniment to the videos and should have been done anyway...

Keep plugging away on the 3D edges concept.

Martin
 
Those are some clean edges Martin!
Looking forward to some 3D edges, Bluntcut!
 
I was a bit curious (and maybe a little skeptical) about this, and had some items on hand that I could pretty much duplicate this idea, so thought I'd give it a try...

ea6287ed88caa5640440a1a9805cad49_zps21cba007.jpg


...(Sidebar: the base is an old Hand American strop base. Wish I'd bought more than one when they made them. It's great.)

Anyway, I was impressed with how well this idea works. I used a piece of copy paper with some of the "Sharpening Wheels" white compound...you can see in the picture that the "washboard effect" works great at putting the compound to work (that's from just one knife). I tried a couple of knives that were sharp but wouldn't shave... I was able to get an edge "shaving sharp" in short order... the strop gives good feedback, and is forgiving... I was a bit careless on purpose, and it didn't kill my edge. (I didn't try the sandpaper part... just used as a strop.)

Not a paid endorsement (I don't even know HeavyHanded)... just thought I'd pass on what I found, especially since I was not so sure about it. Seemed to work well!
 
I originally went down this path when I realized how much work I could get done just wrapping a sheet of paper around a combination stone and applying compound to that - still highly recommend this method and use it on my machetes to put on a hasty polished edge (when my personal Washboard isn't handy). The paper is a real nice surface in general, and it can be tossed when it loads up - this is important when you're doing a lot of work with compounds. Cleaning a hard use leather strop all the time isn't practical, and they don't work the same once they load up past a certain point anyway.

Then I noticed some stone textures worked better than others and started testing all kinds of stuff, including drywall screens, sandpaper, etc etc. Narrowed it down as to what worked and why (for the most part) and was able to fine tune it from there. By the time I arrived at what I felt was the best arrangement, making it was too involved to just tell someone "do this, this, and this to a piece of plexi and you're there" and hope they might do it, and that it might actually turn out well.

By now I had fine tuned my "production" methods so my prototypes weren't too ugly and decided to send a few out for testing. Response from a number of folks was positive, universally so, and they all noticed the same characteristics to varying degrees. At this stage I decided to put 'em up for sale, especially when I realized how well they worked with sandpaper and films (media I don't like working with at all normally, now I'm very happy with the results). As a final consideration, I do believe it helps with freehand backhoning technique - what other tool out there increases felt feedback in a useful way when freehand sharpening? I feel good about putting this item out there, and don't think it could be made at home for much less even if someone had the recipe (at least the way I lay them out) - not if they place any value on their time.

The basic principle is simple - very hard surface under a sheet of substrate. Decrease surface area = increase in spot pressure. Manipulate surface texture to gain increase in felt feedback, increase in substrate density (compression of the substrate), increase in abrasive pressure. Use open areas to prevent rounding of the cutting edge. Manipulate surface texture to reduce likelihood of damaging the cutting edge during use while maintaining the preceding characteristics.

I'm glad you tried it out in principle. It has to look a little gimmicky, but the underlying principles are solid.

HH
 
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