Washington State proposed knife law change

Ed T

Ed T

Joined
Apr 23, 2002
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Washington State knife law proposed change
As a heads up for Washington State residents, HB 1006 was prefiled for this session. While it seems to remove Daggers and Dirks as specific dangerous weapons, it adds language limiting blade length to 3.5"

Might be worth a call to your local representative's office. With a huge budget hole, we could probably not waste time making new bad law.

Not a clean cut and past. Here is a link to the original filing

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...2011#documents

Red would be stricken, blue would be added.

1 AN ACT Relating to knives; amending RCW 9.41.250; and prescribing
2 penalties.
3 BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF WASHINGTON:
4 Sec. 1. RCW 9.41.250 and 2007 c 379 s 1 are each amended to read
5 as follows:
6 (1) Every person who:
7 (a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument
8 or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal
9 knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is
10 automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical
11 device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is
12 ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward,
13 downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;
14 (b) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any ((dagger, dirk))
15 knife having a blade longer than three and one-half inches, pistol, or
16 other dangerous weapon; or
17 (c) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any
18 firearm,
19 is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.
p. 1 HB 1006
1 (2) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not apply to:
2 (a) The possession of a spring blade knife by a law enforcement
3 officer while the officer:
4 (i) Is on official duty; or
5 (ii) Is transporting the knife to or from the place where the knife
6 is stored when the officer is not on official duty; or
7 (b) The storage of a spring blade knife by a law enforcement
8 officer.
--- END ---
 
WOW! Everyone complains abut NY and NYC but the LAW here clearly says any knife that can flick open is illegal and it does not need to lock as in NY law! I would view AOs as illegal also due to the wording.....

or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is
automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical
device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward,
downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement
 
Oregon and Washington are becoming increasingly liberal. Too many refugees from California moving up there and bringing their liberal mindset with them. The proposed law will turn the thousands of people who EDC 4" folding knives into instant criminals.
 
It is strange that they would now allow double edged knives, but then become more restrictive on blade length.
 
Ed T said:
It is strange that they would now allow double edged knives, but then become more restrictive on blade length.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing they're thinking that there's not going to be any daggers/dirks that are under 3.5"

In any case, the knife laws for Washington state are very unclear. There's one statement that makes it seem as if any knife that is over 3" can be considered a weapon.

Anyway, this sounds like something that's come from Seattle consering their municpal code states that no knife should be over 3.5". Is there any new language concerning fixed blades?
 
Thank god I'm outta Washington and here in Oregon. I can carry a balisong all I want so long as it's not concealed. :D
 
Wait a second, I need help! For the longest time I've thought/known that balisongs were legal to carry in OR.. but yesterday after my post I looked it up online and it seems I might be wrong...? Can someone confirm or deny this for me?

(edit: sorry this is a little off topic, but I'm really confused about this and desperately seeking wisdom..)
 
Actually this is a good change; we just discussed current WA law in another thread. Besides lifting prohibition on dirk/dagger, it adds ½ inch to the blade length permitted to be concealed.

Current section:

RCW 9.41.250
Dangerous weapons — Penalty.
Every person who:
(2) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon;
is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.

Even though there is no direct reference to a knife with a blade length as it’s in the
proposed law, it can be found in the definition of a dangerous weapon.

For purposes of this section, a deadly weapon is an implement or instrument which has the capacity to inflict death and from the manner in which it is used, is likely to produce or may easily and readily produce death. The following instruments are included in the term deadly weapon: Blackjack, sling shot, billy, sand club, sandbag, metal knuckles, any dirk, dagger, pistol, revolver, or any other firearm, any knife having a blade longer than three inches, any razor with an unguarded blade, any metal pipe or bar used or intended to be used as a club, any explosive, and any weapon containing poisonous or injurious gas.
[1983 c 163 § 3. Formerly RCW 9.94A.602, 9.94A.125.]

So I’m looking forward to this change.
 
TOM1960 said:
Oregon and Washington are becoming increasingly liberal. Too many refugees from California moving up there and bringing their liberal mindset with them. The proposed law will turn the thousands of people who EDC 4" folding knives into instant criminals.
Click to expand...

On normal basis a folding knife clipped to your pocket is not considered to be concealed.
 
rookie4real said:
Actually this is a good change; we just discussed current WA law in another thread. Besides lifting prohibition on dirk/dagger, it adds ½ inch to the blade length permitted to be concealed.

Current section:

RCW 9.41.250
Dangerous weapons — Penalty.
Every person who:
(2) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon;
is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.

Even though there is no direct reference to a knife with a blade length as it’s in the
proposed law, it can be found in the definition of a dangerous weapon.

For purposes of this section, a deadly weapon is an implement or instrument which has the capacity to inflict death and from the manner in which it is used, is likely to produce or may easily and readily produce death. The following instruments are included in the term deadly weapon: Blackjack, sling shot, billy, sand club, sandbag, metal knuckles, any dirk, dagger, pistol, revolver, or any other firearm, any knife having a blade longer than three inches, any razor with an unguarded blade, any metal pipe or bar used or intended to be used as a club, any explosive, and any weapon containing poisonous or injurious gas.
[1983 c 163 § 3. Formerly RCW 9.94A.602, 9.94A.125.]

So I’m looking forward to this change.
Click to expand...

As far as I know though, that portion of the statute may only be relevant to the proceeding part. Here's the whole thing

RCW 9.94A.825
Deadly weapon special verdict — Definition.


In a criminal case wherein there has been a special allegation and evidence establishing that the accused or an accomplice was armed with a deadly weapon at the time of the commission of the crime, the court shall make a finding of fact of whether or not the accused or an accomplice was armed with a deadly weapon at the time of the commission of the crime, or if a jury trial is had, the jury shall, if it find the defendant guilty, also find a special verdict as to whether or not the defendant or an accomplice was armed with a deadly weapon at the time of the commission of the crime.

For purposes of this section, a deadly weapon is an implement or instrument which has the capacity to inflict death and from the manner in which it is used, is likely to produce or may easily and readily produce death. The following instruments are included in the term deadly weapon: Blackjack, sling shot, billy, sand club, sandbag, metal knuckles, any dirk, dagger, pistol, revolver, or any other firearm, any knife having a blade longer than three inches, any razor with an unguarded blade, any metal pipe or bar used or intended to be used as a club, any explosive, and any weapon containing poisonous or injurious gas.

[1983 c 163 § 3. Formerly RCW 9.94A.602, 9.94A.125.]
Click to expand...


So I'm not sure what exactly that means, but it sounds if someone was on trial for assault with a deadly weapon, or maybe armed robbery, that these types of items would be considered a "deadly weapon", but it may be only when talking about accusations that a person was armed while committing a crime. I think there may be a distinction between people armed with "deadly weapons" during the commission of crimes and the carry laws regarding "dangerous weapons".

I think the new language of the law is just trying to cast a kind of an umbrella by defining blades longer than 3.5" as "dangerous weapons" instead of defining "dirks and daggers" as such. If you think from the law-makers point of view that's trying to ban "big scary knives" this probably makes sense, considering that a Buck 119 isn't a dirk or a dagger, but would certainly fit most people's view as a "dangerous weapon". Maybe they're just trying to fill in what they see as a legal loophole, because until that language is introduced there actually isn't a defined blade-length limit in Washington state in regards to carry laws. That statute is the only wording I can find pertaining to knife length at all, and it seems to be strictly relevant to special verdicts in criminal cases.

To me the way the law reads now is kind of interesting though. "...furtively carries with intent to conceal...any knife with a blade longer than three and one half inches..." So now, if I carry my Izula around tucked into my boot, it's not a misdemeanor because it's only a 3" blade? Maybe even grind a clip-point on it? I'm not sure if the change in wording is granting us more carrying liberty in regard to what we can conceal, or if they were just trying to cover their tracks by defining what has been until now an undefined state-wide blade-length limit. If it's the latter then I think they really tripped over themselves... However, maybe it's been changed to clarify the confusion over what types of knives can be carried concealed now. I remember asking a police officer, "If I have a 3" slip-joint in my pocket, does that count as a concealed weapon?" and they basically said that it depended on how it was concealed. Now however, it seems more like if I have a knife concealed that's under 3.5" it's fine, but if it's over, it's a "dangerous weapon" and is not legal to carry or conceal.

I'm not sure if I'm interpreting the changes the right way, but I don't know if I like the change.
 
KennyB said:
So I'm not sure what exactly that means, but it sounds if someone was on trial for assault with a deadly weapon, or maybe armed robbery, that these types of items would be considered a "deadly weapon", but it may be only when talking about accusations that a person was armed while committing a crime. I think there may be a distinction between people armed with "deadly weapons" during the commission of crimes and the carry laws regarding .
Click to expand...

That may very well be true. However, that's the only definition of a "dangerous weapons".

So to me this ends in each particular situation and it’s up to LEO to make a call.
The bottom line is that the law system is not always straight forward and can be manipulated and altered in a court.
Also be careful going through Seattle, there is ban on all fixed blades including open carry and all lengths. Pathetic if you ask me…
 
rookie4real said:
That may very well be true. However, that's the only definition of a "dangerous weapons".

So to me this ends in each particular situation and it’s up to LEO to make a call.
The bottom line is that the law system is not always straight forward and can be manipulated and altered in a court.
Also be careful going through Seattle, there is ban on all fixed blades including open carry and all lengths. Pathetic if you ask me…
Click to expand...

Well, actually... I'm not trying to be a stickler here or bust your balls, but if you look closely it's actually defining a "deadly weapon". I would imagine in legal statute that the difference between "deadly weapon" and a "dangerous weapon" may actually be very distinct. Considering that "dangerous weapons" has its own statute I would say that the two definitions are distinct.

Let's put it this way... If a person is on trial for stabbing someone. There's video of it happening, so there's nothing to debate. Now, to me, the "any knife having a blade over three inches" is just to define that a little pen knife with a 1" blade might not be considered a deadly weapon, whereas any knife with at least a 3" blade should be, and the law is actually stating that a jury should make a finding whether it is just a regular assault case or "assault with a deadly weapon". There are of course other crimes with different penalties and sentences depending if a person was armed with a deadly weapon during the commission, and I think that's what that definition is actually relevant to.

That's the way it seems to be written to me anyway, especially with the "For the purposes of this section" language. That alone may mean that it is not meant to pertain to the carry laws.

I was definitely less than impressed with I read the SMC considering knives. This Thanksgiving I thought I would finally have a blade with a legal length carrying my Izula, but there you go. I'm half worried that the "powers that be" over there are trying to get the rest of the state's knife laws to reflect that of Seattle, and that fixed blade carry throughout the state may be the next thing to go.
 
rookie4real said:
Actually this is a good change; we just discussed current WA law in another thread. Besides lifting prohibition on dirk/dagger, it adds ½ inch to the blade length permitted to be concealed.

Current section:

RCW 9.41.250
Dangerous weapons — Penalty.
Every person who:
(2) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon;
is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.

Even though there is no direct reference to a knife with a blade length as it’s in the
proposed law, it can be found in the definition of a dangerous weapon.

For purposes of this section, a deadly weapon is an implement or instrument which has the capacity to inflict death and from the manner in which it is used, is likely to produce or may easily and readily produce death. The following instruments are included in the term deadly weapon: Blackjack, sling shot, billy, sand club, sandbag, metal knuckles, any dirk, dagger, pistol, revolver, or any other firearm, any knife having a blade longer than three inches, any razor with an unguarded blade, any metal pipe or bar used or intended to be used as a club, any explosive, and any weapon containing poisonous or injurious gas.
[1983 c 163 § 3. Formerly RCW 9.94A.602, 9.94A.125.]

So I’m looking forward to this change.
Click to expand...



I think that you're looking at this the wrong way.

First off as of now the legal length is 4", but that's not my point.

My point is they are trying to make open carry or concealed carry anything over 3" will be a misdemeanor. That means the hunter with is 5" hunting knife, or the fisherman with is 10" fillet knife might unknowingly commit a misdemeanor. This is a bad change for those of us who carry a knife.
 
I haven't seen it posted here but the bill was withdrawn after various representatives of the cutlery industry talked to the lady.
 
TOM1960 said:
Oregon and Washington are becoming increasingly liberal. Too many refugees from California moving up there and bringing their liberal mindset with them. The proposed law will turn the thousands of people who EDC 4" folding knives into instant criminals.
Click to expand...

Sad but true:thumbup:
 
TOM1960 said:
Oregon and Washington are becoming increasingly liberal. Too many refugees from California moving up there and bringing their liberal mindset with them. The proposed law will turn the thousands of people who EDC 4" folding knives into instant criminals.
Click to expand...

Dude do you hear yourself? Last time I checked the Northwest WAS liberal, always has been to an extent.

And save the rhetoric about the scary "Liberals" for Political or something. I'm a left leaning Independent and strong supporter of knives. Most of those "Liberals" are outdoorsmen and use knives often.

And when was the last time a cop stopped you and asked how long your knife was? As long as it isn't huge or a switchblade you're probably fine.

And does nobody care that we can carry ANY size fixed blade openly?
 
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