Wasted Space on Knives

[sweet_hitch-hiker]

I want to see your guys opinion on something that has bothered me for as long as I've been collecting knives seriously: Wasted space, especially on smaller knives. In my opinion, on a smaller knife, there is often to much space wasted between the end of the usable handle and the beginning of the cutting edge. Here are a couple examples of what I mean. The crudely drawn red lines illustrate this space.

As you can see, all 3 of those knives are small (Delica, Mini Griptilian and Small Sebenza) and don't utilize the entire real estate on the knife. Now here's an example of one that makes use of almost all of the available knife.

Now I know some people say this could be a safety measure incase of accidental closure so you don't cut yourself, but I think a functional choil would serve better because a lot of people may want a smaller blade, but would still like to be able to fit their whole hand on the handle. the Spyderco Poliwog is a perfect example of this. I prefer smaller-ish knifes, with blades close to 3", but many are uncomfortable because the handles are too small. Extenting the usable handle into this wasted space could make a lot of knives much better.

 

[BITEME]

Sharpening can be tough if the edge goes too far back

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The example of the Delica is a poor one in my opinion. It's a back lock. That "wasted space" is the kick, which rests against the back spring when closed to keep the edge from contacting it.

 

[brets-ftw]

The example of the Delica is a poor one in my opinion. It's a back lock. That "wasted space" is the kick, which rests against the back spring when closed to keep the edge from contacting it.

Even with a kick, it can be utilized into a finger choil without problem. Hell I wouldv'e ground a finger choil into my delica years ago if it didn't have recessed steel liners.

To the OP: This is one of my biggest qualms with folding knives in general, I think I still have a few pics but the only way I've found to fix this problem is to significantly reduce the knives you're willing to buy, or dremel them into submission.

Sadly I can only find the JYD I worked on.

 

[sweet_hitch-hiker]

The example of the Delica is a poor one in my opinion. It's a back lock. That "wasted space" is the kick, which rests against the back spring when closed to keep the edge from contacting it.

but the front end of the handle could be extended a little bit make the handle more versatile

 

[XiaolongJackson]

I kind of like the "wasted space" on my Mini Grip since it allows me to use the back end of the cutting edge as a secondary tip, which is useful for things like nicking oranges. It's also nice since it makes it easier to sharpen.

 

[Planterz]

The example of the Delica is a poor one in my opinion. It's a back lock. That "wasted space" is the kick, which rests against the back spring when closed to keep the edge from contacting it.

And in the case of the Sebenza the gap is where the tang hits the bladestop when closed, and with the Grip, it's where the AXIS lock bar detents the blade closed.

 

[leifjl]

I dont know, I've found that I rarely use that last 10% of the blade. 90% or more of what I cut is from midbelly to tip. And as 42blades said that space serves another function in a lot of knives.

 

[Dorito Monk]

I friggin' love little choils on my knives. It makes it much, much easier to sharpen the full length of the edge without mangling the corners of my waterstones, and I find it easier to get a consistently sharp edge all the way back when using ceramic / diamond stones (when I'm not concerned about messing up the edges of my stones).

I like them so much, I've taken to filing little 'sharpening notches' into the blades of knives that don't come equipped with them already.

Besides, what possible use could I have for an extra 1/8" of cutting surface right where the blade meets the handle? None of the cutting I do ends up using that spot anyway. For me, the benefits of that 'wasted space' / sharpening choil / whatever you want to call it outweigh the benefits of a tiny little bit of extra "real estate".

 

[timberweasel]

In addition to what's already been said, I find myself resting the tip of my index finger on that little bit of extra space if I'm doing any precision tip-cutting...

 

[clockman]

What about the SNG & SMF...big chiol with a cutting edge of only 2.75 on the SNG and 3.25 on the SMF. Spyderco has a designer whose last name starts

with an S that almost always uses a big choil on his knives.....I'd Much rather have the cutting edge.

 

[Gravelface]

I hate the wasted space when the knife is closed and there is over half an inch from tip to the end of the knife handle. Design the blade to be a bit longer.

 

[Swedish_Steel]

The first thing I look for in a good knife design is if the edge goes all the way to the handle, that is where the most force can be placed. Many folders use this area for edge protection like in the delica in the original post, but does this area really have to be this large? As for difficulties in sharpening: what? I assume you mean that sharpening could accidentially mar the finish of the knife. If a knife is supposed to be used then the sharpness must be the main factor. If a knife is ment to be kept for future resale, then it should probably not be used at all...

 

[jonnyt16]

The wasted space kinda bothers me too. In fact, sometimes it factors in to whether or not I'll even buy the knife. I have a 950 Rift serrated version and while I love the knife, I wish the cutting edge was longer. Not my photo here, but you can see the large gap between the first serration and the beginning of the handle. To me that is a bit too much wasted space. Oh well, still a great knife.

 

[sweet_hitch-hiker]

If they're going to have the space they should make it a choil, but on the Small Sebbi and Mini Grip it is useless space. I loved that mini grip but i couldn't fit all of my fingers on it properly. It was a dealbreaker for me

 

[Dorito Monk]

As for difficulties in sharpening: what? I assume you mean that sharpening could accidentially mar the finish of the knife. If a knife is supposed to be used then the sharpness must be the main factor. If a knife is ment to be kept for future resale, then it should probably not be used at all...

Since I was one of the folks who talked about the sharpening-related benefits of choils, let me explain what I meant for you.

Like I said in my last post, it's mostly a question of damaging my waterstones. For me, it has nothing to do with marring the finish of the knife.

When a knife doesn't have a little notch in the blade, you end up with either a little Kick, like the Delica above, or a little space right where the blade meets the handle that can't be sharpened on waterstones, like on these knives.

It's hard to tell from this picture, but that effect gets worse over time as you wear away more and more of the blade:

While sharpening, this is about as close as you can get to the tang of this particular knife without having the tang grinding at the edges of your stones:

The principle works the same for knives that have a kick. If you slip and let the that area, or the Kick, scrape against your stone, this is what happens:

You end up mangling your waterstones. These aren't high end stones, but you can see how this becomes a pain in the ass and would really ruin your day if you were using expensive stones.

With a little sharpening choil, on the other hand, it's much easier to avoid rounding / chipping the edges of your stones. You don't have to be nearly as careful about babying your stones this way, and sharpening becomes less of a hassle.

Excuse my lousy photography.

 

[NeverMore1701]

What gets me is when the handle on a folder is considerably longer than the blade when closed. The Benchmade Rukus, for example (which I love) could easily have a 3/8" longer blade without getting dangerously close to the end of the handle.

 

[Sulaco]

I own three folders, BM 940, 810 and Spyderco DF II Salt. Both BM's have some space between the first finger groove and the plunge line but it doesn't bother me because it's part of the overall system which works well. They both have nice, long blades with lots of usable cutting edge.

The DF has a choil which makes the space a non-issue.

To each his own.

For me, I just use fixed blades mostly, and they almost all have cutting edges which come way back to the grip. I don't have a problem sharpening them because I mostly use strops.

 

[todapoint]

Aaah this shit drives me knuts too, oh well sometimes you just gotta deal with it

 

[RevDevil]

Nice thread-surrection.