water buffalo horn problem

G

Gene Martin

Joined
Feb 5, 1999
Messages
1,068
Some time back I made a dagger for a customer. Because if the shape of the handle, I epoxied 3 I" thick rounds of water buffalo horn together. They had been around for a while, nothing fresh.

Last week the customer contacted me that the horn had separated. I told him to ship me the knife. I got it today.

The rounds have separated at the epopxy joints in the middle. The ends have not separated. The butt cap screws on to a threaded tang and is oval, so tightening a little is out. I've never had buffalo horn shrink up like this before. It acts like dried out leather washers.

Any ideas? I can make a new handle but I'd sure like to know what caused this.

Thanks,

Gene
 
I've got very limited knifemaking experience but used horn (buffalo, zebu) on several occasions. I had the same problem (shrinkage). I think the horn was not old (or dry) enough to start with. What is curious is I also used sheep horn on a knife during the same period, and it never shrinked. It was quite old, so it might have stopped moving before I cut it.
Another factor that causes materials like horn and ivory to shrink is difference in relative humidity. For example, if you live in a humid area, no matter how long you age them, they will move if the knife is taken in a very dry area.
 
I quit using Buffalo horn for that reason, even stabilized by WSSI it has a tendency to move around a little, Beautiful stuff but not worth the headache for me. What is the butt cap made from, can you just drill and tap another and reshape it after you've got it in place? Also you could apply spacer material between the joints, something like N/S sheeting or some vulcanized stuff. I don't know of any easy fix, but maybe some of these other guys might have a solution

Good luck

Bill
 
Gene, I have had so much trouble with srinkage from B. Horn over the years that I no longer use it. Shame as it is beautiful. Still have some in stock. I've had it for at least 25 years. Wonder if it is done shrinking yet? Mike
 
Thanks guys. Looks like I'll add buff rounds to the do not use list. I might be able to take it apart abd add some black spacer material. That's about all I can think of. No, the stuff isn't stabilized.

It went from So Oregon to the SF Bay area, so the weather isn't that diferent.

The butt cap is drilled and tapped, so I can boill the epoxy loose and take it apart. It's a multi piece nickle silver buttcap, but it is drilled and tapped. At least that's done right.

This knife was really challenging, so I wasn't happy that it cqame apart like it did. In thinking about this, I can slit the spacers to put them in, rather than completely disassemble the knife.

If I knew how, I'd post a pic of it.

Gene
 
Michael Lovett said:
Gene, I have had so much trouble with srinkage from B. Horn over the years that I no longer use it. Shame as it is beautiful. Still have some in stock. I've had it for at least 25 years. Wonder if it is done shrinking yet? Mike
Click to expand...



Same here I don't use it anymore .
 
Another problem I see is, no matter what you do to fix it, you might get it back again. I would contact the owner and see about replacing the horn with a stabile piece of something else. I know you don't want to hear that, but to put a great deal of time in it now and then have to mess with it again later, well, it would be less of a hassel to just remove the problem forever.

Good luck,

Bill
 
Gene
I use it fairly often but soak it in mineral oil to keep it from drying out , I've had good luck so far, Knock on wood..:)
soak it for ~ 3 days and at least two times a year depending on it's use .. I do the same with Ivory..
if you use water on these they will come apart.. like on utensils and letting them set in dish water :eek: a very bad thing to do..
 
I made kitchen set many years ago. Purchased the blades from Koval and just did the handle work, back in my pregrinding days. Full tang design. They kept coming loose too. I swore off of Buffalo Horn too. I have full tang set left, that I'll probably never use. It's a black set with some real nice white feathery clouds running through them.
 
If you have any small pieces try gring them into powder and pack the joint with the powder used dry. Then soak it with the thinest super glue you can find. Works with wood. ???
Take Care
TJ
 
Treating with mineral oil 2-3 times a year seems to have cured the set I have on an old slipjoint, after they shrank a little.
 
I like Buffalo Horn,have only had a few miner shrikage problems and they showed up aftyer bringing the knife in the house from the shop.....This is something no one else has mentioned....The shop has hardly any heat and no air so my handle material is dryed to the ambient air temp,the house has central heat and air and drys the air out in the house,The handles can shrink after a day or 2 in the house but put it back in the shop for a day or 2 and it swells back up....

Stabilizing helped my problem so I still love using it..It is a traditional material on some of the antique Bowies and they have been around a long time.

When grinding you have to keep the heat down on the horn or it will show up later on.The horn can seperate or crack from the grinding and buffing if it is over heated.Also watch the grain in the horn when using turnings as it can check even worse if heated a little to much.

Soaking in oil is a great idea.
Bruce
 
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