Water Cooled Grindstones

Johspr1

Johspr1

Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
17
Hi Guys,
I was looking at utilizing either the Jet or Tormek water cooled grindstones for secondary bevel grinding onto carbon steel knives (possibly full thickness and hardened), but research seems to yield that they:
A.) Will not have enough power to remove material efficiently,
B.) Have stock stones that will wear away quickly if used as a primary means of bevel grinding,
C.) Probably won't have the width to adequately stabilize longer blades if utilized for freehand grinding.

Mr. Apelt had told me about his plans to fabricate a modern Kaiten Toshi (rotating Japanese water stone,) and I have seen a few other plans online, but is there a viable, small (8-10in diameter) water cooled grindstone that would be suitable for secondary bevel grinding? Is it feasible to swap out the Tormek or Jet motors with something more powerful? How about retrofitting an existing, more powerful grinder to take a Tormek stone? Will the Tormek specialty stones make them more useable for this task?

I have thought about water cooling a belt grinder, but that seems messy and probably expensive, as I would want to build a more substantial grinder if I went that route. Any thoughts on any of these topics?

Thanks,
John
 
Tormek grinding stones left in their roughest state(after dressing w/truing tool)
will eat up hardened steel very fast for what you describe.No problem grinding
secondary.Belts still faster.
 
I used to use a wet stone grinder. I like a KMG setup wet way better. Faster, more versatile and easier grit changes.
 
A.) Will not have enough power to remove material efficiently,
B.) Have stock stones that will wear away quickly if used as a primary means of bevel grinding,
C.) Probably won't have the width to adequately stabilize longer blades if utilized for freehand grinding.

I have the jet, works great, removes stock for secondary bevel pretty well
have not had any trouble with excess wear, sharpend and done bevels on 50+ no sign of wear
It takes a bit of adjustment but long blades are not a problem, I bought the large blade sharpening tool, I mount the rail so the stone runs backward and there is plenty of room for a large blade up to 10" sharpened edge.

The sharpening attachment is so easy to use and set a nice accurate bevel that I don't do free hand at all, I could but I like the tool.
 
This all sounds interesting but I sure would like to read more. Tormek and jet is this a very different type of grinder? I will try the search of course, but your help would please me. Frank
 
Frank- Tormek is an immersed stone grinder that moves at a very slow rpm compared to what you are used to. Was made for the culinary kitchen knife crowd and wood workers. The theory is if kept wet then when putting a microbevel on or reverse bevel or whatever you wont overheat the steel at such a fine edge like dry grinding. The counter to this theory is Landes paper on overheating at the edge even with water immersed grind stone as the surface area is so small at an apex of an edge it doesnt matter.

I see both sides, but personally I just use my knives and sharpen on very slow with my 2x72 and the people Ive given or sold to have been very happy.

http://www.tormek.com/en/
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
I used to use a wet stone grinder. I like a KMG setup wet way better. Faster, more versatile and easier grit changes.
Click to expand...
Nathan, so if I pull the trigger on a KMG, would you suggest the flat platen or a wheel? Don't the belts you use start to come apart with the application of water?
 
I just realized that the 10 and 8 inch wheel setups on KMGs include the flat platen...answers that question. I guess I was just trying to save a $1000, but I'm a big boy and should do it right...
 
Power has not been an issue for the Jet, but if you want to put more pressure, the answere to your questions is you can replace the motor it hangs underneath the stone in the cabinet. Space is a little tight but you could probably find a bigger motor to fit.
 
As Nathan says, some belts are designed to run wet or dry, while some belts are dry only. There are some folks with a water setup to drip (or mist) a bit of water to the belt to help it run cooler.

Ken H>
 
I realized that I said grinding secondary bevel, but I meant primary. I'm looking to see if these have enough torque if you push on them hard, ala j-knife maker style. Has anyone tried that?
 
I've owned a Tormek T-7 for the last 2 years or so, it's a great machine as long as you understand it's limitations and have reasonable expectations. It's good for efficient sharpening and repairing of damaged edges, and it'll put a razor sharp edge on most tools provided you practice a little.

As far as grinding a primary bevel, I wouldn't recommend it for a few reasons:
1) The motor is not connected to the drive shaft directly or through pulleys, the motor shaft comes in contact with a rubber wheel and shaft which then turns the stone. This limits the amount of torque that can be applied to the wheel.
2) The stone is too fine for rapid removal of material, it's meant to be graded with a stone to either 220 or 1000 grit approximately.
3) With removing that much material the stone will most likely glaze rapidly and you'll be constantly grading and dressing the wheel.
 
The stone can actually be dressed down to about 80 grit ( approx).Minimal glaze.Try it with the truing tool it grinds fast.
 
One of the big problems with using the Tormex for grinding primary bevel is the radius of the wheel, even the 10" wheel will put a very narrow bevel on a blade. With a 10" contact wheel you can "walk" the bevel up free hand grinding, but with the tormek it's harder to walk the bevel up. The desire (hope?) of using the jigs available for the Tormek to put primary bevels was one of the driving forces behind my purchasing the Tormek (got a good deal at around $550 shipped due to damaged box from Amazon). a 2X72" belt grinder is so much better for primary bevels, and I've got less money invested in my last 2X72" with VFD drive than the Tormek.

As was posted, the Tormek is GREAT for it's intended purpose of sharpening, and I do like it for that. Now, with good 2X72" belt grinders, I could get by without the Tormek nicely, but do like it for sharpening tools, drills, etc.

Ken H>
 
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