Water purification and such

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Nov 5, 2006
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I think this could really go in a couple different forums but suspect this one will show the greatest knowledge base. I am looking to develop a minimalist emergency water filter setup for a mini-BOB to place in my car trunk. Specifically, the purpose of this BOB would be to support a foot hike home to my family of up to 100 miles if "TSHTF" while I'm on a frequent and regular commute. The terrain would be be primarily flat to rolling hills with light woods, heavy farming, and some small towns as well as potential heavy urban; basically the trek out of one large urban area, through the interceding farmland/country side and into the next large urban area with some towns in between. Location is USA but with the farm land I don't think we can rule out biological hazards, and with the industrial activity up and down river, pollutants are a possibility though I do not have real data on "raw" water quality.

It seems like the few "reputable" small scale water filters are gears towards biologics and do not offer any type of toxin or heavy metal protection. If that is the case, would I be better with a waterbottle, some heavy clothe to filter intake water and purifying tabs? Not really sure here, never worried about mobile water supplies before.
 
I think this could really go in a couple different forums but suspect this one will show the greatest knowledge base. I am looking to develop a minimalist emergency water filter setup for a mini-BOB to place in my car trunk. Specifically, the purpose of this BOB would be to support a foot hike home to my family of up to 100 miles if "TSHTF" while I'm on a frequent and regular commute. The terrain would be be primarily flat to rolling hills with light woods, heavy farming, and some small towns as well as potential heavy urban; basically the trek out of one large urban area, through the interceding farmland/country side and into the next large urban area with some towns in between. Location is USA but with the farm land I don't think we can rule out biological hazards, and with the industrial activity up and down river, pollutants are a possibility though I do not have real data on "raw" water quality.

It seems like the few "reputable" small scale water filters are gears towards biologics and do not offer any type of toxin or heavy metal protection. If that is the case, would I be better with a waterbottle, some heavy clothe to filter intake water and purifying tabs? Not really sure here, never worried about mobile water supplies before.

Here is good information about filter topics:

http://www.trailspace.com/forums/beginners/topics/76401.html

and in general:

http://www.trailspace.com/articles/backcountry-water-treatment-part-3.html

http://www.trailspace.com/articles/...ent-part-4-methods-for-making-water-safe.html

basically, the forum discusses that there are very few portable filters that do well to remove heavy metals.

-------

Sawyer claims not to be able to because in fact, they do not use charcoal in their devices:

https://sawyer.com/sawyer-u/faqs/water-filtration/

"Heavy Metals
The Sawyer filters are not made with charcoal. While other portable filters have charcoal, they lack in amount of media and adequate dwell time. Therefore, they only remove small amounts of heavy metals, pesticides, etc. (when used in real life applications). Try using better sources of water, if possible."


But this one looks promising:

http://www.seychelle.com/seychelle-water-filters.html

"Seychelle Standard Filter
The Standard filter is ideal for any in or out-door use; like traveling, hiking, biking, camping, fishing or for emergency purposes. It can be used with any type of water source; tap or rainwater, rivers, streams or even lakes (Excluding salt water). It is designed for use with water that is non-turbid, non-stagnant. It removes up to 99.99% of contaminants and pollutants found in fresh water supplies including Aesthetics such as chlorine, Sediment and dirt; Chemicals (VOC's) such as DDT, MTBE, Benzene, Chloroforms (THM's); Dissolved Solids (heavy metals) such as Arsenic, Lead, Mercury, Copper, Zinc, Aluminum, Chromium 6 and up to 99.9% of Biologicals (pathogens) such as Giardia and Cryptosporidium. Removes up to 90% of fluoride.


Seychelle Advanced Filter
The Advanced filter is made of the same media as the Standard filter with the addition of EPA approved iodinated resin (EPA Reg #: 35917-2), which has been proven effective in the removal of bacteria and virus to six logs (99.9999%). Removes up to 90% of fluoride. It can be used in extreme conditions; turbid and stagnant water; and is ideal for emergencies such as hurricanes, cyclones, etc. such as events that occurred in the US with Katrina and the hurricane in Haiti."
[highlights by me]

This one uses the "advanced" filter and is $32

http://store.seychelle.com/Std_Filtration_Bottles-28oz_Flip_Top_Filter_Bottle_Advanced.html
 
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Most of the filters available focus on biological contaminants because you can filter them out. Dissolved chemicals are tougher, there are some filters that can take care of that, but we are looking at reverse osmosis systems, and those are $$$. Depending on what you need to filter out, mechanical filtration should be enough for the short term, since you will get a lot of the contaminants out of the water simply by removing the sediment. Won't be perfect, but better than nothing.

With farm land you are looking at ag run-off which will certainly have e.coli and other such nasty bugs you will want to filter out. Some waters will be very high in nitrogen, which might cause a blue-green algae bloom, which the filter won't help with. Depending on the number of people moving along the same path, you could have viral contamination as well, hep-A, noro-virus and others. Or if no one else is walking, plenty of farms with wells that might be negotiated with.

The other method for removing dissolved chemicals is charcoal absorption. the only trouble is that you have no real way of knowing when the filter is saturated, or how much its actually removing. There are a lot of factors involved.

A little research should be able to get you water quality on local rivers and ponds, since it is monitored. As well, you should be able to find what sort of disasters might cause that water to become contaminated, and what you would have to do about it. For example, lets say you work near a large plastics manufacturing plant. They have a fire which due to smoke closes a bunch of roads. The toxins in the smoke may contaminate the rivers, but really you aren't walking out of the smoke either. in that case you would be evacuated upwind. and that may, or may not be in the direction of home. Say its a tanker spill, traffic gets messed up for half a day, then you head out.

If you are talking total societal breakdown, not sure what to say, other than water might be the least of your worries. But any plan you make needs to start with more than just "walking home" why would you have to go? why would you not just catch a grayhound? how much danger is 100 miles of walking going to put you in, rather than staying put and trusting that your supplies at home will get everyone by?

As for filter selection, to actually answer the question. Decide on how much you want to spend, and then pick the best of breed in that range. A pump filter would likely be better for you than a gravity one, as I'm assuming mobility is your primary goal. I prefer the MSR miniworks for a few reasons. Its field maintainable, its easy to visually check the integrity of the ceramic filter. It has a decent enough capacity to handle the water needs for several people in a reasonable amount of time. the inlet tube allows you to get water from pretty well anywhere you could reach, and it threads on to any standard nalgene widemouth.

There are others, the sawyers seem very popular, not my pick for a couple of reasons, they seem fiddly to get water for more than one or two people. Their marketing hype really turns me off, it just feels over-sold, and If the water had some sort of solvent contamination, there is a risk it could compromise the filter membranes. But they are cheap.

a UV system would work, but since you will be dealing with widely variable and unpredictable water qualities, the pre-filtering may end up more a hassle than is necessary.
Chemicals are alright, but be aware of how hot your car gets, and the expiry dates.
 
That seychelle filter just seems to be a fancy tap-water filter with an iodine insert. They make a big deal about fluoride, and there is a link to "health and water PH" This suggests to me a heavy dose of pseudoscience so that's enough for me.
 
I don't think you can really get away with just one thing to treat water.

I have tablets, a Steripen, water filter (varies but a little sawyer at the moment) and a berkey bottle with carbon filter. I also use a 1Lt bottle and a 3L water bladder.

My method is to collect water in the bladder, fill the 1Lt bottle and add a tablet allow to sit for 2hrs (more likely its being agitated by walking) then hit with the UV pen for good measure, filter into the berkey bottle with carbon filter and drink from that.

Possibly a little over kill considering my water sources are generally fresh water dams.
 
I don't think you can really get away with just one thing to treat water.

I have tablets, a Steripen, water filter (varies but a little sawyer at the moment) and a berkey bottle with carbon filter. I also use a 1Lt bottle and a 3L water bladder.

My method is to collect water in the bladder, fill the 1Lt bottle and add a tablet allow to sit for 2hrs (more likely its being agitated by walking) then hit with the UV pen for good measure, filter into the berkey bottle with carbon filter and drink from that.

Possibly a little over kill considering my water sources are generally fresh water dams.

Agreed but he wanted a portable version of a "do all" type of method. The bottle I posted should pretty much accomplish the needs outside straining particulates from the water.
 
That seychelle filter just seems to be a fancy tap-water filter with an iodine insert. They make a big deal about fluoride, and there is a link to "health and water PH" This suggests to me a heavy dose of pseudoscience so that's enough for me.

Fluoride is technically lethal in large/unmonitored doses and by the way, is also the one thing NOT regulated [by the government via EPA] as to what quantity of/or quality that is put into a water supply. There is also a crap load of studies suggesting that fluoride is completely unnecessary in the water supply to begin with....

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?...a=X&ei=1C0eVfLUDLb9sASBm4C4Aw&ved=0CBwQgQMwAA
 
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I'm not doubting that, I understand that fluoride has some controversy surrounding it, but the moment someone puts that beside links to water PH, I start thinking pseudoscience. Add to that a filter that is just a charcoal and iodine filter, which there are plenty of others on the market, and I'd rather not add more iodine, I get enough. Also my understanding that by removing the particulates from the water, you remove most radioactive contaminants since they tend not to be dissolved. I could be wrong, but it just seems over hyped.
From the EPA site:
How will radionuclides be removed from my drinking water?
The following treatment method(s) have proven to be effective in removing radionuclides at levels below their MCLs:

Beta particle and Photon Radiation: ion exchange and reverse osmosis;
(Gross) Alpha Emitters: reverse osmosis;
Radium 226 and Radium 228 (Combined): ion exchange, reverse osmosis, lime softening;
Uranium: Ion exchange, reverse osmosis, lime softening, coagulation/filtration.

I don't know much, I can only gauge a company based on its marketing. Those guys seem to be using a lot of technical language that doesn't matter a bit.
 
Thanks for all the replies, especially druid- I have a lot of reading to do now. Those Seychelles filters look like a good product, maybe with some tablets for a 2 method approach.
 
I'm not doubting that, I understand that fluoride has some controversy surrounding it, but the moment someone puts that beside links to water PH, I start thinking pseudoscience. Add to that a filter that is just a charcoal and iodine filter, which there are plenty of others on the market, and I'd rather not add more iodine, I get enough. Also my understanding that by removing the particulates from the water, you remove most radioactive contaminants since they tend not to be dissolved. I could be wrong, but it just seems over hyped.
From the EPA site:
How will radionuclides be removed from my drinking water?
The following treatment method(s) have proven to be effective in removing radionuclides at levels below their MCLs:

Beta particle and Photon Radiation: ion exchange and reverse osmosis;
(Gross) Alpha Emitters: reverse osmosis;
Radium 226 and Radium 228 (Combined): ion exchange, reverse osmosis, lime softening;
Uranium: Ion exchange, reverse osmosis, lime softening, coagulation/filtration.

I don't know much, I can only gauge a company based on its marketing. Those guys seem to be using a lot of technical language that doesn't matter a bit.

well to be quite honest, I don't use these filters myself. I have used my own make-shift filter already using birch bark as a funnel, charcoal from my fire, sand, grass, moss cotton tee shirt and boiled the crap out of it....

but if their marketing is dedicated with proper science in the removal of these materials...and since they meet certain criteria, I'd have to assume the products might just be genuine enough to do the proposed duty.
 
watch this, very interesting:

[video=youtube;db4eiAA2mtc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db4eiAA2mtc&index=10&list=UUX66eXhdLWxf32vAubGL7uQ[/video]
 
Sawyer mini filters or the inline filters are great, bangs out 2 gallons in just a few mins.

I don't personally stress about heavy metals pesticides and needing another filter, especially if I'm in an emergency situation, trace elements are the least of my worries. Backcountry trips, just be more selective of water source. Boiling and bleach are the others that I've always relied on.
 
At the risk of hijacking this thread to make it a much wider base

Please could we expand this to Chlorine tabs and Iodine tabs and the UV Steri lamps


Thanks
 
At the risk of hijacking this thread to make it a much wider base

Please could we expand this to Chlorine tabs and Iodine tabs and the UV Steri lamps


Thanks

You know I'm for it! I'd add aquamira tabs or drops too. Iodine always has that taste...
 
When considering gear, I like to look for independent evaluations, not what sellers say in an effort to win you over. Most "reviews" are sales pitches for the product "reviewed" or are strongly negative when pushing a competitive product.

Seychelle Standard Filter

http://sectionhiker.com/seychelle-water-bottle-and-purifer/

http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php/4481-Seychelle-Water-Filter-Canteen


What are the pros and cons of chlorine vs iodine tabs?

Speaking of iodine and regular chlorine (sodium hypochlorite or calcium hypochlorite [AKA "halazone"] ). Both are better than nothing. They are generally good against bacteria and viruses if used as directed.

Neither is fully reliable due to their low ability to kill encysted parasites (giardia and cryptosporidium) Of the two, iodine is better in that regard (kills more).


A different generally-available product, Chlorine dioxide, ClO2, used according to directions, will take care of cysts, but requires a wait of four-hours - longer if the water is not clear.

"The effectiveness of all chemical treatment of water is related to the temperature, pH level, and clarity of the water."

Some people are allergic to iodine.

Open containers of calcium hypochlorite "chlorine" pills last three days or less, depending on heat and humidity.

Cloudy water should be prefiltered, A disposable coffee filter does a decent job (and has other uses).
 
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Great points by Thomas above. Especially about the iodine allergy or using tincture of iodine with pregnant ladies.

4-6 drops of regular chlorine bleach per 1 liter
2 tablets of Tetraglycine Hydroperiodide (iodine) per liter
5-10 drops of Tincture of iodine per liter

All three of these methods take about 30 minutes to treat 1 liter.

That's been my basic carry for most backcountry outings when I didn't have a filter or couldn't have a fire to boil it.
 
Complete newbie on this issue

Please explain what these are:
  • bacteria and viruses
  • encysted parasites (giardia and cryptosporidium)


thanks

Neeman
 
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