Water Quench failed!, what did I do wrong now?

D

DaQo'tah Forge

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The clay popped off....

The blade did not crack, so I can try this again.

Here are the facts:
Im doing what Wally Hayes shows to do in his water quench of a Katana in his video.

I heated the blade however in my 3-burner gas forge and not in a coal forge as seen in the video.

Quench water is heated to 105 as in video.

I put clay on as in video,,,left clay about 1/8 tp 1/4 inch thick along spine.

I added clay in the mid after noon,,,the clay is RUTLAND REFRACTORY CEMENT....the directions tell me to alow to dry for 24 hours,,,But as Im in a hurry, I placed the clayed-up blade in a warm oven for a hour.

at the time of heat-treatment the clay appeared very dry and hard.

I allowed the blade to sit in a pre-warmed forge that turned off for about 20 min to make sure all the water in the clay was dryed out.

I then fired up the forge and heated the blade,,,almost within seconds the clay started to "peal" away from the blade in layers....many times the fallen clay would start to stick to the blade again and I would have to pull the whole blade from the forge fire to clean off the clinging clay.

although some clay fell off, it stayed on atleast 1/8 inch thick in al places so I kept going.

once blade was up to the right temp,,,I took out, and slid into the water tank...waited 4 seconds, took out for a few seconds and then placed back under the water.

It was at this moment (the 2nd time into the water) that all the clay along the spine of the blade popped off,,,I heard and felt it pop off, and in the moment it fell off the blade I saw a very red line of heated steel underneath the clay react to the water.

Blade did not curve at all, however the blade seemed to almost have etched lines in it where I placed the lines of clay on the cutting areas of the blade..


what did I do wrong?
 
Sounds like a good clay treatment.You didn't give any specs,so I can't comment on the curve.The clay usually falls off.Its job is to slow down the cooling of the spine.The edge cooled the first quench,the spine the second.Thus you created a hamon.Finish the blade ,etch,and watch that hamon jump out .Building up layers of refractory cement causes problems,sometimes.Satanite works better.I let it dry for several days.Also,Remember that every time you warm up and cool off the blade you create minute cracks in the clay.Your pre-warmed forge trick was good.
"Experience is a great teacher,haste is a poor student."
SA
If this is the sword you were asking about the handle length,it may not have much curve in that length,depending on the steel and thichness.-SA
 
If you don't let the clay dry, then it won't stick in some to many cases. If your in a hurry, wrap a bit of wire around the clay.
 
First,,,yes, this is the shorter (20 inch) little sword that Im doing before I bump up to the full size Katana...Oh, and I really should find out who suggested I start with a smaller sword to learn on and thank them....this is not as easy to do as I first thought.

2nd......Im going to try the clay heat-treatment again right now....last night about 9:00 i sanded off the old clay, cleaned the blade, and did another new coating of clay,,,this time I was more carefull....But although I guess its too late to wrap with wire on this blade,,,,I have been thinking of doing that on the next.....

but, is it just normal wire,,,normal tie-wire you get in the store?
 
going over what went wrong last night during the water-quench....I see something that I did differently that Wally Hayes does in the video.

He sinks the blade into the water, "cutting edge" first,,,,Cutting edge down/spine up and last to get wet...

I had a hold of the blade tang with a visegrips and the way I did it, I had the blade going into the water upside down..(spine getting wet first, cutting area last to get wet)...is this wrong?
 
Placing the spine in the water first is not wrong if you want a blade with less curve, to get a curve to the blade place the edge in first. Also increase the thickness of your clay to about 3/8 thick on the spine, it may take several days for it to dry and may crack in drying, patch the cracks and let it dry some more. making a good hamon takes time, slow down you'll be happier with the end result.
 
ok,,,,,not what I wanted to hear,,,but ok,,,,
(I want to go fast)

Here is a question:....the type of clay I use,,,,It's called RUTLAND REFRACTORY CEMENT....I got it at the hardwear store,,,,

But there were two different types I could pick from,,,,the stuff I got is brown...comes in a small ice-cream size little bucket,,(1/2 Gal.)

But the other stuff was in very small little things and was gray....

any idea if I got the better clay?
 
Check out the properties. How soft do you want the spine, how much curve, waiting time for it to dry. These are all different depending on materials. Go for your specifications.
 
Just about any clay will work as long as you can get it to stay on the blade an you let it dry
 
Bruce,,,

I have had to change a few things,,,,that might be the reason for the trouble,,,but I have to change them.

I cant do my heat-treatment outside
I need to use my gas forge not the Hayes coal forge
I need to use the type of clay I can get,,,even if it is different
Im making a very short sword not his full size katana

as I write this,,,my 2nd try at the water quench is ready to go,,,,,when next I post here, I will let you know how it went
 
What grit are you sanding to before you put on the clay? also are you making a clay wash and coating the entire blade, then letting that dry, then adding thicker clay to get the hamon you want?
 
ok,,,Im back from the 2nd water quench attempt

Worked like a charm!

I felt a lot better about this one. This time I got the clay just right, None pealed away in the forge. I did the water quench just like Wally shows in his video,,,dunk/pull out for a few seconds, /re dunk...

The clay hung on during the 1st dunking in the water, However during the 2nd dunking all the clay along the spine again popped off...(This is normal right?)

when it popped off ,I noticed a thin red line along the spine where the clay had been...But this time the red line was smaller than the first quench.

The blade is bent off the side, This I expected to happen, it happend to Hayes in his video.,,,Right now have the blade in the oven to temper ...
 
Terry...I have no idea about the type of sanpaper I used to clean up the blade after the first quench went wrong,,,I just grabbed something that was there and cleaned the blade...

In the Hayes video we have not yet come to the hand-sanding part...

as for your question about a thin clay coating,,,,I knew about that trick, However in the video Mr. Hayes does not do that and so I didnt do that this time,,,

However when I finish this first short sword, Im going to make another one the same size with a few changes , the thin clay coat in one I will try.
 
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