Water Stone Advice

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robinbj

Joined
Jul 29, 2015
Messages
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Hello all, im new to the forum so I figured a quick howdy before I begin!

I've been a master sharpener for a long time, and primarily use water stones. I've owned MKG grinders, mechanical stones, water cooled powered grinders but find I prefer to finish and sharpen all my knives by hand.

I use a 1k and 6k stone, with a few natural incredibly fine stones, and a set of King 400/800 stones

My Mizuyama stones 1k and 6k are my two workhorses. They're strong, incredibly hard, and barely slurry unlike my King stones, which any 1095 or Aogami steeles tend to wear out rather than be ground (way too soft)

I'd rather not use mechanized machinery because of space and cost, so anyone know a water Stone that is incredibly hard, and grinds hard steeles well? I wish my Mizuyama stones came in something grittier and more aggressive, 300-700 grit.

Ideas?
 
Ever tried Shapton?
I haven't yet but from what I've heard and videos I've seen of testimonials people think very highly of them.
 
aesmith said:
What are the differences between Shapton Pro and Shapton Glass?
Click to expand...

The Shapton stones are Very hard Ceramic stones that wear slowly and cut very fast. The Shapton Pro line of stones work best with carbon (10xx, blue paper, white paper, etc) and low alloy stainless (VG-10, AUS8, and various Moly blends) while the Glass line is for more wear resistant alloys (R2, HAP40, ZDP-189 etc.).

The Shapton Pro line has more feedback and excellent drag on the blade. Though the glass line does a bit better with high alloy steels the Pro line is still very powerful and capable of sharpening all the steels I listed. It's only real trouble is with Steels like S30V, once the Vanadium content starts hitting 4% and higher its time to switch to the Glass stones or Diamond plates.

The Glass stones have much less feedback and a very smooth feel but cut crazy fast. The glass stones are a harder mix but give up abrasive easier than the Pro line so you get a faster cutting action. It's a more costly route because its more of a system with Pond, stone holder, and lapping plate. Some will say these things are not necessary but once you use the Glass stones your opinion will change.
 
robinbj said:
Hello all, im new to the forum so I figured a quick howdy before I begin!

I've been a master sharpener for a long time, and primarily use water stones. I've owned MKG grinders, mechanical stones, water cooled powered grinders but find I prefer to finish and sharpen all my knives by hand.

I use a 1k and 6k stone, with a few natural incredibly fine stones, and a set of King 400/800 stones

My Mizuyama stones 1k and 6k are my two workhorses. They're strong, incredibly hard, and barely slurry unlike my King stones, which any 1095 or Aogami steeles tend to wear out rather than be ground (way too soft)

I'd rather not use mechanized machinery because of space and cost, so anyone know a water Stone that is incredibly hard, and grinds hard steeles well? I wish my Mizuyama stones came in something grittier and more aggressive, 300-700 grit.

Ideas?
Click to expand...

Do you have any diamond plates? This would be my first recommendation, they can do double duty lapping waterstones and grinding bevels. Atoma 140 or DMT XXC are the top contenders.

The Mizuyama stones sound like the Shapton Pro stones. If you like them consider adding the 2k Mizu stone for better transition to the 6k and more finishing options for softer stainless. For a coarse stone (not a diamond plate) I would recommend the Shapton Pro 220 or Nubatama Bamboo 150.

Coarse stone selection can be tough because some stones are much better at some tasks than others while some are very specialized at what they do. So, what is the main use of this coarse stone? It sounds like you sharpen Japanese cutlery?
 
Jason B. said:
Do you have any diamond plates? This would be my first recommendation, they can do double duty lapping waterstones and grinding bevels. Atoma 140 or DMT XXC are the top contenders.

The Mizuyama stones sound like the Shapton Pro stones. If you like them consider adding the 2k Mizu stone for better transition to the 6k and more finishing options for softer stainless. For a coarse stone (not a diamond plate) I would recommend the Shapton Pro 220 or Nubatama Bamboo 150.

Coarse stone selection can be tough because some stones are much better at some tasks than others while some are very specialized at what they do. So, what is the main use of this coarse stone? It sounds like you sharpen Japanese cutlery?
Click to expand...
I have worked with a middle grit between 1 and 6, but I find I can polish most steels with a step from 1 to 6.

I thought about diamond, but always used wetstone because that's how I was trained and taught to finish cutlery and swords in Japan, however I might try them. Esp. for rough grinding, it might be what I need.

I repair and regrind/sharpen all blades except serrated and ceramic. I specialize in japanese cutlery and high carbon laminated steel knifes. Sushi knives and tuba swords are the bulk of my work along with finishing raw blades by hand of local blacksmiths near my home.
 
Jason B. said:
The Shapton stones are Very hard Ceramic stones that wear slowly and cut very fast. The Shapton Pro line of stones work best with carbon (10xx, blue paper, white paper, etc) and low alloy stainless (VG-10, AUS8, and various Moly blends) while the Glass line is for more wear resistant alloys (R2, HAP40, ZDP-189 etc.).

The Shapton Pro line has more feedback and excellent drag on the blade. Though the glass line does a bit better with high alloy steels the Pro line is still very powerful and capable of sharpening all the steels I listed. It's only real trouble is with Steels like S30V, once the Vanadium content starts hitting 4% and higher its time to switch to the Glass stones or Diamond plates.

The Glass stones have much less feedback and a very smooth feel but cut crazy fast. The glass stones are a harder mix but give up abrasive easier than the Pro line so you get a faster cutting action. It's a more costly route because its more of a system with Pond, stone holder, and lapping plate. Some will say these things are not necessary but once you use the Glass stones your opinion will change.
Click to expand...
I've found that with my Mizuyama stones and soft steels, it feels like I'm working with a grinder and raw blades. I might pick up a few glass and ceramic stones and building a collection of types of tools for different steel types.
 
I recommend the 2k as a finisher for most entry level kitchen cutlery, the steels are not hard enough to support finer more polished edges and that's where the 2k stone shines. It provides just the right amount of polish and toothy attributes that better suit softer steels.

Diamond plates such as the Atoma are a popular Japanese brand and some of the top rated diamond plates in professional sharpening groups. Even Korin (importer of the Mizuyama stones) recommends a 300 grit diamond plate to use before the 1k.

The only time you should use a low grit stone instead of a diamond plate is when sharpening traditional Japanese blades. The Hagane and Jigane are both equally gouged by diamond plates which can be difficult to remove without proper tools.

Some of your top options will be the,

Atoma 400
Shapton Pro 320 or 220
Suehiro Cerax 320
Nubatama Bamboo 150 (with this stone it would be best to have a 400 grit stone too)
 
Jason B. said:
I recommend the 2k as a finisher for most entry level kitchen cutlery, the steels are not hard enough to support finer more polished edges and that's where the 2k stone shines. It provides just the right amount of polish and toothy attributes that better suit softer steels.

Diamond plates such as the Atoma are a popular Japanese brand and some of the top rated diamond plates in professional sharpening groups. Even Korin (importer of the Mizuyama stones) recommends a 300 grit diamond plate to use before the 1k.

The only time you should use a low grit stone instead of a diamond plate is when sharpening traditional Japanese blades. The Hagane and Jigane are both equally gouged by diamond plates which can be difficult to remove without proper tools.

Some of your top options will be the,

Atoma 400
Shapton Pro 320 or 220
Suehiro Cerax 320
Nubatama Bamboo 150 (with this stone it would be best to have a 400 grit stone too)
Click to expand...
Higane and Jigane as well as helle knives I tend to find shine with the use of my natural stones and paper stropping for refinement.
 
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