i was looking at more water stones (shaptonstones.com) and now im more confused than ever. i like a really really polished edge and i saw that water stones go all the way up to 30000 grit; but then i saw that some stones that were 1000 grit are considered course to medium. i thought that was a fine grit, isnt it? do water stones cut faster than other stones? i was also wondering if they are softer than other stones? sorry to bother u guys about these water stone questions again.
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water stones again....
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The matrix of waterstones is softer, yes, so they dish faster and need to be flattened more often, but that property together with the shape of the abrasive particles makes them the fastest cutting abrasives available.
#1000 grit is commonly considered already a faily fine grid (even though you have to pay attention to the fact that the western grit rating, e.g. for sand paper, is a different one used for japanese waterstones. However, western manufactures have adoped the japanese rating for their waterstones), however, fine japanese waterstones have no equal among other shapening stones, therefore the #1000 grid is considered to be the low end of the medium stones. The japanese rating of very coarse, coarse, medium and finish stone is derived from the way japanese woodworker sharpen: The very coarse stones with grids from 180 to about 400 are used for major stock removal, like reprofiling, removal of chips etc. The western woodworker is likely to prefer a grinding wheel for this. the coarse stones cover the 500-800 range, most commonly #700 and #800 grit. They are used for small nicks, but mostly to flaten the backside of the chisel. I find that they are the best place to start for a pretty dull knife that doesn't need reprofiling and to remove nicks on blades that have an edge bevel and a back bevel. The medium range covers #1000-3000 and used as the typical starting point for sharpening and to flatten both back and bevel of a chisel. Japanese woodworker seem to prefer this range over the 700-800 range. I personally prefere 700-800, as they cut a little faster. Its mostly up to you personal preference. Above the medium range starts the fine range which the Japanese call "finishing" stones. Commonly, the really fine finishing stones are the most expensive and most treasured stones. In order to protect those stones, the japanese like to use a low grade finishing stone like 4000-5000 before they put the final finish on the edge with a natural or 8000-10000 grit stone. I find that I can go from a #2500 directly to a #10000 stone. The bevel of a knife is so much smaller (except for chisel grind to zero edge) than those of a chisel that you should be able to make larger grit jumps in knife sharpening than a woodworker would prefer. The #15000-30000 are very new accomplishments that have no pendant among the natural stones. Only Shapton makes those and most woodworker seem to feel that they are not really necessary and maybe a little over the top (their prize tag most certainly is: #30000=$600). The differences between the #8000 and #10000 seems to be more a question of brand and what general quality of the stone rather than one of particle size. Naniwa for example ends one of their lines with the #8000 and skips that grid size and finishes their high end line with #10000. Other brands don't make #10000. When choosing your final polishing stone, IMO you should find one that you like instead of going only by grid size. The stones vary quite a bit in "their feel" and the people at www.japanwoodworker.com or www.hidatool.com can can help you find on that is right for you.
Hope that helps a little bit.
P.S. Never mind the spelling, I saw several mistakes in my post but am too lazy to correct them
#1000 grit is commonly considered already a faily fine grid (even though you have to pay attention to the fact that the western grit rating, e.g. for sand paper, is a different one used for japanese waterstones. However, western manufactures have adoped the japanese rating for their waterstones), however, fine japanese waterstones have no equal among other shapening stones, therefore the #1000 grid is considered to be the low end of the medium stones. The japanese rating of very coarse, coarse, medium and finish stone is derived from the way japanese woodworker sharpen: The very coarse stones with grids from 180 to about 400 are used for major stock removal, like reprofiling, removal of chips etc. The western woodworker is likely to prefer a grinding wheel for this. the coarse stones cover the 500-800 range, most commonly #700 and #800 grit. They are used for small nicks, but mostly to flaten the backside of the chisel. I find that they are the best place to start for a pretty dull knife that doesn't need reprofiling and to remove nicks on blades that have an edge bevel and a back bevel. The medium range covers #1000-3000 and used as the typical starting point for sharpening and to flatten both back and bevel of a chisel. Japanese woodworker seem to prefer this range over the 700-800 range. I personally prefere 700-800, as they cut a little faster. Its mostly up to you personal preference. Above the medium range starts the fine range which the Japanese call "finishing" stones. Commonly, the really fine finishing stones are the most expensive and most treasured stones. In order to protect those stones, the japanese like to use a low grade finishing stone like 4000-5000 before they put the final finish on the edge with a natural or 8000-10000 grit stone. I find that I can go from a #2500 directly to a #10000 stone. The bevel of a knife is so much smaller (except for chisel grind to zero edge) than those of a chisel that you should be able to make larger grit jumps in knife sharpening than a woodworker would prefer. The #15000-30000 are very new accomplishments that have no pendant among the natural stones. Only Shapton makes those and most woodworker seem to feel that they are not really necessary and maybe a little over the top (their prize tag most certainly is: #30000=$600). The differences between the #8000 and #10000 seems to be more a question of brand and what general quality of the stone rather than one of particle size. Naniwa for example ends one of their lines with the #8000 and skips that grid size and finishes their high end line with #10000. Other brands don't make #10000. When choosing your final polishing stone, IMO you should find one that you like instead of going only by grid size. The stones vary quite a bit in "their feel" and the people at www.japanwoodworker.com or www.hidatool.com can can help you find on that is right for you.
Hope that helps a little bit.
P.S. Never mind the spelling, I saw several mistakes in my post but am too lazy to correct them
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good info HoB, thanks. For what its worth, what ive found to help prevent dishing is to take it REALLY slow at first, wait until you get a nice "slurry" going before you try and develop the edge your looking for. I find when i get in a rush, wear patterns on the stone show my impatience.
Of course i may be doing it all wrong.
Of course i may be doing it all wrong.
I found the same thing. Being patient, working the entire stone evenly gives much better results, and makes the dishing a lot slower.
Forgot to mention: Even after the #10000 I give the edge a few licks on a CrO loaded, wood-mounted strop. Recently I fund that you can strop on a very fine stone with very light strokes as well. Doesn't work as well though as the leather has a tiny bit of give and really gets to the edge.
Forgot to mention: Even after the #10000 I give the edge a few licks on a CrO loaded, wood-mounted strop. Recently I fund that you can strop on a very fine stone with very light strokes as well. Doesn't work as well though as the leather has a tiny bit of give and really gets to the edge.