Water Stones and Super Alloys

Crayola

Crayola

Joined
Sep 23, 1999
Messages
3,831
Will Japanese Water Stones do a good job on the modern vanadium steels? Or it is diamonds and ceramic only for those steels?
 
The Japanese water stone is an excellent choice for any blade. Just be patient and use plenty of water. You will see alot of the stone (It isn't really a stone) slough off of the top, but that's to be expected. I've made a knife with cpm10v and I put the initial edge on it with a 600 grit water stone, as well as sharpened it once afterwards. Just to give you an idea about how patient you might have to be it took about five hours to apply the initial edge and about two hours to resharpen it. Incase I haven't said it enough patience it paramount when using a water stone. But the results are spectacular.
 
Waterstones are fine for shaping on the high alloy steels with the harder carbides, such as removing dents or chips, however to insure that you are cutting the carbides I would recommend that you finish with a DMT plate. Stropping with CrO will raise the finish, which will already be high on a 1200 grit finish. Don't go beyond a few passes, as you will do more harm than good as you will just be rounding out the carbides.

-Cliff
 
440v is a great steel, but compared to 420V and S30V, its pretty easy to sharpen. I know people who have gotten rid of 420V knives because of the difficulty in sharpening them. The stuff is VERY tough.
 
Stones and water seem to work well for me - I'm using my grandfather's old bench stone with oil and another super hard washita with water on stuff like the newer Spydies - and some of the other new formulas - I agree a diamond and ceramic carbide are quicker - all my sharpening is done freehand - I've not seen the need for a guide system as of yet and after sharpening for 50 years I don't think I'm going to do much changing - I do like the diamond sharpeners.
 
James: I admire your patience! Sounds like you'd make a good Japanese Sword Polisher!

Cliff: If you have to use diamons ANYWAYS, is there any point in gettign waterstones then at all?
 
Tom seems to be saying that s30v is hard to sharpen, I disagree. I have had no problem regrinding a new edge bevel on it or giving it a touchup sharpening. And that is on s30v at 61 rc. What I really like to use for almost all steels now is diamonds for knives that need to be rebeveled and Arkansas hard to keep them sharp. Before the Diamonds, whitch I just got I used a silicon carbid bench stone and with the newer v steels it works fine but dished out faster than I liked. May just try a 1200grit diamond one of these days to see how I like it, for finishing.I have been really happy with my hard Ark until I dropped it last month and broke it. So I am looking for something to finish/maintain with.
 
Im with DB on this one, i have a 8" kitchen knife at 61-62RC HT'ed by paul bos so i know its about as tough as its getting and it is not that hard to sharpen, S30V is actually pretty easy when compared to 440V. It only took me about 30 min to get it from not shaving to scary sharp, and that was using the ceramic sticks from my spydie 204, im sure if i used my DMT's i would have been done in 10 min but i prefer a nice smoother fine ceramic edge on my kitchen knives. Then i stropped it a little with some thick cardboard and some valve grinding compound(4000 grit) And i havent had to sharpen it in weeks and its still just as sharp, its a good steel but not that hard to sharpen.
 
Yup, Cray is right it is the hard Ark stone that is broken. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. The 61 rc refers to the s30v blade on the knife I have, and that is just fine nothing wrong with it at all.. Hope that clears that a little.
 
Crayola :

If you have to use diamons ANYWAYS, is there any point in gettign waterstones then at all?
Click to expand...

Waterstones work faster for shaping than Diamonds as you can apply lapping compound to them, and press very hard. The downside is though as Db noted, they don't stay flat for very long and thus have to be lapped on a regular basis. They are also messier to use than Diamonds or ceramics, and are much heavier, and much more fragile than Diamonds in regards to impacts.

As for sharpening, regardless of the steel type, if you are spending any more than a few minutes then some of the following are true; the edge is seriously damaged or worn to the point it has no fine cutting ability left at all, the hone is very low in aggression due to poor quality, or excessively clogged, or you are not sharpening at the same angle the edge was ground.

If you think a knife is difficult to sharpen simply because the metal is getting removed too slowly, then after you get it sharpened take the edge and rake it right into the hone a few times and see how much metal is removed in just a couple of passes and how quickly the blade becomes unable to cut anthing at all. It can be restored almost as quickly if you can match the existing edge bevels.

-Cliff
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top