water stones

Joined
Aug 18, 2004
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right now im using the razor edge hones but i wanted an even more polished edge than i get with their fine hone. so then i started to look at some of those 8000 grit water stones, and a couple of questions came up. the first one is, can i use them with out water? the razor edge book of sharpening sais that hones should be used dry. second question is, i heard if you use water a slurry develops on the stone, wont this just make it courser because fresh grit is being exposed? :confused:
 
For various reasons, the waterstones should ALWAYS be used with water. Most of them should be soaked in water permanently or at least a quarter hour before use. Others, such as the finishing stones (#4000 and above) and all Shapton stones need wetting (wetting means holding them under the faucet....not just sprinkling a few drops on them) only right before use. As a matter of fact they should never be stored in water.

The grid number referes to a freshly exposed surface, so #8000 grid will never be coarser than #8000, however, you can grade it finer in two ways. You can let a natural slurry build up, the slurry consists of particles that were already exposed to the grinding process. The grinding of the knife tends to break down and crack the abbrasive particles which makes them finer (this is happening on all abrasives, not only waterstones, but on waterstones you can get such a slurry most easily). It is also common to use a Nagura stone, which is a relatively soft, very fine, chaulky stones. Rubbing a Nagura stone on a finishing stone will build up a slurry and also temporarily embed Nagura particles in the stone surface, effectively grading the stone finer than its rating. On all but the finishing stones, you would flush the slurry away as it slows down the sharpening process somewhat until you are ready to transition to the next grid. Then you let the slurry build up, which makes your work easier on the next grid up, as you have less to polish. On the finishing stone however, removal of material is not your prime concern, polishing is. On the finishing stone you always work with a slurry.
 
I used to work with a few sushi chefs and they always use the finest water stones for their work knives. They store them in a wet towel and rinse them before, and after use. The thing is, they dish out very quickly so you have to be very adept in compensating for this angle change just by using your eye. If not, you're not using the 8000 grit to it's full potential. If you can't, try sticking with a spyderco ultra-fine ceramic.

BTW, I intro'd them to the spyderco UF and everyone except the die-hard old timers switched to it immediately. They liked the fact that it did not dish out.
 
I have 4000 and 8000 grit stones and I keep them in water all the time. I read this was okay, but from reading HoB's post I'm not sure if I should do this. :) I've also heard the Razor Edge guys may not be accurate in stating you get a better edge using the stone dry. It sounds like most people agree that building up a slurry which results in a smoother and smoother surface will get you a more polished edge.

Does anyone have a grit value of the Spyderco UF stones?
 
I bought a couple Japanese water stones at Blade from Murray Carter (MS). He said it was fine to leave them in a bucket of water all the time, so that they were ready to use at a moments notice. For now, They are back in the box. I still like my EZ Lap diamond "stones," (Med, fine, superfine) ceramic, and leather strop.
 
ok, this sounds like alot of work. is there any other stone that is 8000 grit or finer that doesnt need water and stays flat?
 
Oh yeah, for the flat part just pick up a piece of plate glass and some lapping grit. www.leevalley.com should have everything you need. This allows you to keep your stone flat.
 
Its all a question of money, for anything finer than #320 you can use a #220 DMT diamond stone (DMT says you can even flatten a #220 with it, but I am not so sure about that). Its dead simple and gets it dead flat, you can do it really quickly even in between sharpening and especially the fine stones don't dish out THAT fast...but the diamond stone costs something like $30? Shapton has an even better system....which costs over $100. Even the glass plate from Veritas, which I use as well, runs you about $40 with shipping.

Wade: Except for the Shapton stones all waterstones can and should be stored in water as it prevents mineral build up. The very fine stones in the 8000 grit range don't NEED to be stored in water, because they don't take up as much water.

The stones that are mounted on a wood stand can obviously not be stored in water and SOME 6000-10000 grit stones don't like to be stored in water either, but if you haven't seen any cracks develop in the stone till now, they are fine for sure. The King stones are all fine being stored in water, no matter what grit.

I like the UF rods from Spyderco for my sharpmaker a lot. Maybe the UF stones ARE the ticket for you?
 
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