I found on the web that using oil over water may improve sharpening and saw some videos on Youtube. One dude even claim that is it possible to get back to water after using oil. I am thinking of converting my King 300/1000 waterstone into oil but first I would like to confirm with experts if it will work? The main reason for me would be making less mess during sharpening.
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water to oil stone conversion
- Thread starter Barmaley
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Can you post the video of the guy using oil on a WATER stone?
Using oil on an Arkansas stone is normal, but I've never seen anybody use oil on a water stone.
As far as mess goes, I would much rather clean up water than oil. You can clean up water with just a paper towel. You are going to need some type of solvent to remove oil.
Using oil on an Arkansas stone is normal, but I've never seen anybody use oil on a water stone.
As far as mess goes, I would much rather clean up water than oil. You can clean up water with just a paper towel. You are going to need some type of solvent to remove oil.
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Do...not...attempt...it. You will regret it, bitterly if the stone is of any value.
If it is a true ceramic waterstone you will have to cook the oil back out over an outdoor fire or it will continuously load and clog as the swarf and binder are captured by trace oil in the stone that no amount of boiling will remove.
If it is a resinoid stone like the Kings, it will generate a creamy mudlike scum that is useless for anything except possibly cosmetic polishing of large bevel areas - something the same stone could have done with water. It will be ruined forever, as boiling will not remove all the oil and open fire baking is not an option.
Some composition stones can be used with either, and typically the mfg will let you know. If it is billed as a waterstone, it is ONLY a waterstone. Whip up a better bath or switch to actual oilstones.
Thank you, I am glad I asked before ruining my stone. BTW, you provided detailed description on what will happen - did you try to do it ones upon the time?
Just wondering - why oil stones do not produce
Just wondering - why oil stones do not produce
like Arkansas stones?
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I did, was lucky to recover my ceramic waterstone. The Kings I experimented on were cutoffs from the stone.
Think of it this way - mix water and dirt you get mud. Add more water you get clean hands.
Mix oil and dirt you get a different kind of mud. Add more oil you get a bigger mess. Using oil on waterstones prevents the composition from releasing itself and the removed steel, you have to constantly work to refresh the stone when a small splash of water would have sufficed.
Once the oil gets into the stone, boiling water only gets to 212 F, not hot enough for a high density stone, though it is high enough for a glass/vitreous stone. You can boil oil out of an India stone. A higher density stone esp resin bonded, won't allow the oil to leave the stone at that temp, baking in an oven releases clouds of rancid smoke.
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I have oil and water stones. I cant really say which one I like better as far as clean up goes. The water leaves a huge mess that needs more than a paper towel to clean up. I mean , the water carries the fine stone powder every where.
The oil stone , used with mineral oil , I guess being thicker doesn't run all the way down the table. Then I usually just put fresh oil on the dirty stone, and sop it up with a paper towel and the stone is clean. The mineral oil is the equivalent of baby oil so its not terribly bad to get a coating of that stuff on the blade.
The oil stone , used with mineral oil , I guess being thicker doesn't run all the way down the table. Then I usually just put fresh oil on the dirty stone, and sop it up with a paper towel and the stone is clean. The mineral oil is the equivalent of baby oil so its not terribly bad to get a coating of that stuff on the blade.
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When you have a magnesia bonded stone, like say a Chosera, your f*cked if you get oil on it.
As Heavy Handed says, the oil prevents water from getting into that part of the stone and releasing grit and binder.
But you can't get the oil out either - you can't leave magnesia stones in water too long, it will crack if you take them out soon enough and presumably be sludge if you leave it in.
As the pharma companies say, use as directed. I though this thread was going to be about India or novaculite stones.
As Heavy Handed says, the oil prevents water from getting into that part of the stone and releasing grit and binder.
But you can't get the oil out either - you can't leave magnesia stones in water too long, it will crack if you take them out soon enough and presumably be sludge if you leave it in.
As the pharma companies say, use as directed. I though this thread was going to be about India or novaculite stones.
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There is a lot of stuff said in this thread with 100% confidence it seems, but is it really so?
Shaptons Kuromaku stones are magnesium bonded and the box plainly says it can be used as an oil stone.
Here is a Cliff Stamp video that specifically talks about traversing back and forth on the same stone
. IIRC Jef Jewell said similar things in many videos including using an impulsion of oil and water and soap.
Shaptons Kuromaku stones are magnesium bonded and the box plainly says it can be used as an oil stone.
Here is a Cliff Stamp video that specifically talks about traversing back and forth on the same stone
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You're saying that a ceramic stone is really magnesium bonded? I don't think so.
I'm not sure on the specifics of this, but Naniwa [Chosera/Pro/Gouken Arata] and Shapton Pro/Kuromaku use a "magnesia bond". The Naniwa Super Stones use a resin bond. That's what I have heard; I'm happy to get some clarification on this though.
Again, from what I have read, it is the magnesia bond that is soluble in water which apparently causes cracking in rare cases in the Chosera's where the stones have either been soaked for too long in water and/or have not been dried optimally. I'm not sure why the Shapton Pro's don't seem to have the same issue if they have the same type of bond.
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But the specifics are the point.
Choseras are magnesia bond. Shaptons - Pro and Glass, are ceramic. Handle them and you will know.
If not, from Sharpening Supplies: "The Kuromaku Professionals are made using very accurately graded ceramic abrasives."
from Amazon description "for Ha No Kuromaku Ceramic Whetstone" it is quite often described that way.
from Hida Tool "The Shapton Pro series are synthetic, ceramic stones"
Also I have soaked one over night before (Shapton Pro) and it is fine. A magnesia bond stone wouldn't be.
Chosera's are also ceramic, though I'm sure there must be differences in how they are made.
Just one example of the description of the Shapton Pro is Gritomatic(there are other sources if you want to search) thaat describe them as "aluminum oxide with magnesia bonding"
The bond type and abrasive type are entirely different things.
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They both use aluminum oxide as abrasives. Almost all water stones do. Many resin bonded stones do.
Of course a magnesium bonded stone should show signs of cracking or even worse with prolonged exposure to water.
Aluminum oxide is a ceramic.