-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is available! Price is $250 ea (shipped within CONUS).
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/
Waterjet blank cutting recommend?
- Thread starter EDC-Han
- Start date
Bill DeShivs
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2000
- Messages
- 12,809
You will find that cutting only 6 pieces will be very expensive.
Cut them on a bandsaw until you have your pattern exactly as you want it, THEN have your blanks cut.
Cut them on a bandsaw until you have your pattern exactly as you want it, THEN have your blanks cut.
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2000
- Messages
- 1,116
No, CPM S90V is not a good choice to begin with.
It is very abrasion resistant, especially once hardened and tempered, and you will find it hard work to grind it, even with good ceramic belts. Some years ago I got to try working some CruforgeV, which is a LOT less abrasion resistant than S90V, having only ground O-1, ATS43, RWL34 and 12C27, and it took a lot longer to smooth out scratches than I was used to. If you don't have a grinder that can run specialist metal working belts, with enough power, its going to make your job way harder than you want.
S90V is also more expensive than other options, although not hugely more than some of the other CPM steels. Depending on what you want to test with your prototypes, it might be better do make them from something cheaper and easier to work while you get the design dialled in exactly how you want before you start talking to people to run batches in the premium material. If you have the design right, you can then make one off in the premium steel of choice to test the steel and how it works with a given edge geometry, without any of the other design factors getting in the way.
Best of luck whatever you decide
Chris
It is very abrasion resistant, especially once hardened and tempered, and you will find it hard work to grind it, even with good ceramic belts. Some years ago I got to try working some CruforgeV, which is a LOT less abrasion resistant than S90V, having only ground O-1, ATS43, RWL34 and 12C27, and it took a lot longer to smooth out scratches than I was used to. If you don't have a grinder that can run specialist metal working belts, with enough power, its going to make your job way harder than you want.
S90V is also more expensive than other options, although not hugely more than some of the other CPM steels. Depending on what you want to test with your prototypes, it might be better do make them from something cheaper and easier to work while you get the design dialled in exactly how you want before you start talking to people to run batches in the premium material. If you have the design right, you can then make one off in the premium steel of choice to test the steel and how it works with a given edge geometry, without any of the other design factors getting in the way.
Best of luck whatever you decide
Chris
what steel you recommend for prototyping, easier and cheaper to work with? thanks a lot on the informative input.No, CPM S90V is not a good choice to begin with.
It is very abrasion resistant, especially once hardened and tempered, and you will find it hard work to grind it, even with good ceramic belts. Some years ago I got to try working some CruforgeV, which is a LOT less abrasion resistant than S90V, having only ground O-1, ATS43, RWL34 and 12C27, and it took a lot longer to smooth out scratches than I was used to. If you don't have a grinder that can run specialist metal working belts, with enough power, its going to make your job way harder than you want.
S90V is also more expensive than other options, although not hugely more than some of the other CPM steels. Depending on what you want to test with your prototypes, it might be better do make them from something cheaper and easier to work while you get the design dialled in exactly how you want before you start talking to people to run batches in the premium material. If you have the design right, you can then make one off in the premium steel of choice to test the steel and how it works with a given edge geometry, without any of the other design factors getting in the way.
Best of luck whatever you decide
Chris
Golden
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Messages
- 991
What sort of knives are you building? Do you need them to be stainless? Are you going to grind the bevels yourself and if so before or after heat treatment? Why did you pick S90v?
As was mentioned S90V is not going to be great to work with. It is not known for taking and holding a fine edge and is not very tough. If I needed to cut cardboard or carpet it would be great but not a great hunter or bushcrafter or a chefs knife. There are cheaper steels also more versatile steels it really depends on your application.
Last edited:
I want it to be on more every day carry side of application but also can take up some beating. I do not know much of steel, the reason I chose S90v is that I like Benchmade 940 Osborne made out of S30V. I thought S90V is better than S30V. I should go with a kind of steel that is versatile, easy to work with, strong and maybe cheap.
I am building a compact fixed blade knife, the blade is 4 inch. I want to grind the blade after the heat treatment.
any specific carbon steel? Thanks
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2007
- Messages
- 4,273
1080, 1095, 8670, or O1 are all relatively in expensive carbon steels, not too difficult for most outfits to heat treat.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2004
- Messages
- 38,332
For stainless, try AEB-L for your proototypes.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Messages
- 991
Are you doing the heat treat yourself? So you have a grinder?
If you are sending them out AEB-L is a great price point on steel. You could also go A2, D2 or S35VN but they will be harder to grind post heat treatment. Some guys have a great eye for style and their first knives look great but for most that isn't the case. You might want to just do one at a time and let your experience guide you. If you have a grinder profiles are easy to do. Using a water jet just saves a little time and helps give consistency when doing a production run. If I don't need blades to match perfectly I can profile from barstock(no material trimmed) in 5 to 10 minutes depending on how many times I have to change tooling arms.
If you are sending them out AEB-L is a great price point on steel. You could also go A2, D2 or S35VN but they will be harder to grind post heat treatment. Some guys have a great eye for style and their first knives look great but for most that isn't the case. You might want to just do one at a time and let your experience guide you. If you have a grinder profiles are easy to do. Using a water jet just saves a little time and helps give consistency when doing a production run. If I don't need blades to match perfectly I can profile from barstock(no material trimmed) in 5 to 10 minutes depending on how many times I have to change tooling arms.
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2000
- Messages
- 1,116
The reason for using any sort of CNC process is to get consistent, precise, duplication over a quantity. Getting several blades cut, whether all the same or all different, before you have had a chance to finish some isn't the best approach since every prototype finished will inform your choices for the next one.
There are other ways to get good transfer of profile from CAD to steel. For instance, you can print your pattern from CAD to paper, then use spray adhesive to mount the paper to thin Micarta (acylic or polycarbonate will work too, but 1/16" Micarta is nicer to work, I think. You can then saw, grind and file to your paper pattern. Going from paper to steel gives a problem in that grinding generates heat, which can de-bond the paper pattern, you can't water dunk to cool, and clamping the steel to saw or file can mess up the pattern. It is also a lot slower and if you go wrong it is more effort to re-do. Once you have a Micarta pattern you can use Dyekem Blue and a scriber and get a really good, sharp, layout to grind to on your blade steel.
As mentioned, steels for practice, O-1 is good in that it cuts, files and grinds well, can be home heat treated with a torch, albeit not as well as with an oven, but well enough for some prototype work. I haven't tried AEBL, but all I have heard makes it sound good and the sort of steel that would suit for your initial prototype work.
Of the steels I have worked I like RWL34 the best for performance. It isn't all that difficult to grind hard. I would expect that CPM154 would be very very similar. However, it isn't what I would call cheap, and if you ultimately want S30V it hardly seems worth using another CPM for practice and test.
One other thing. If you are just learning to grind, carbon steels will give you MUCH better feedback for how you are grinding than stainless steel will. You can use the sheet of sparks coming off the belt to help see where your pressure is going and how evenly you are grinding across the width of the belt. Stainless doesn't spark anything like as much as carbon steel. It also tends to get hot much faster since it has lower thermal conductivity, enough that it is noticeable.
Chris
There are other ways to get good transfer of profile from CAD to steel. For instance, you can print your pattern from CAD to paper, then use spray adhesive to mount the paper to thin Micarta (acylic or polycarbonate will work too, but 1/16" Micarta is nicer to work, I think. You can then saw, grind and file to your paper pattern. Going from paper to steel gives a problem in that grinding generates heat, which can de-bond the paper pattern, you can't water dunk to cool, and clamping the steel to saw or file can mess up the pattern. It is also a lot slower and if you go wrong it is more effort to re-do. Once you have a Micarta pattern you can use Dyekem Blue and a scriber and get a really good, sharp, layout to grind to on your blade steel.
As mentioned, steels for practice, O-1 is good in that it cuts, files and grinds well, can be home heat treated with a torch, albeit not as well as with an oven, but well enough for some prototype work. I haven't tried AEBL, but all I have heard makes it sound good and the sort of steel that would suit for your initial prototype work.
Of the steels I have worked I like RWL34 the best for performance. It isn't all that difficult to grind hard. I would expect that CPM154 would be very very similar. However, it isn't what I would call cheap, and if you ultimately want S30V it hardly seems worth using another CPM for practice and test.
One other thing. If you are just learning to grind, carbon steels will give you MUCH better feedback for how you are grinding than stainless steel will. You can use the sheet of sparks coming off the belt to help see where your pressure is going and how evenly you are grinding across the width of the belt. Stainless doesn't spark anything like as much as carbon steel. It also tends to get hot much faster since it has lower thermal conductivity, enough that it is noticeable.
Chris
Ive used bk customs in Riverside CA in the past with good results. However I did have a pretty rough draftsight drawing that they helped me with. I had 5 folder blades, 10 scales and probably 10 small random things. I dont remember paying more than $250