Waterstones vs Jigged Sharpening Systems

J

json2001

Joined
Dec 2, 2016
Messages
3
Hello, first post here, but I've been browsing many of the sharpening threads and how-to's here.

My question is primarily, what are the pros and cons of learning to use freehand norton waterstones vs a jigged system like the Apex Pro (maybe there are better ones out there?) I have no experience with either type of system, and I'm primarily interested for sharpening my kitchen knives. I have a set of Shun knives that get daily use and for the past few years I've been sending them back once a year or so to KAI for sharpening (since it's the cost of shipping), but I want to learn how to do this myself and keep my blades very, very sharp.

Thanks for any help you can provide this sharpening newbie!
 
Using stones freehand will have a longer learning curve but ultimately give you a very convenient skill that can be applied to a huge selection of sharpening media.

The guided systems will give you a better edge out of the box, but will not really advance your sharpening skills beyond the observational. Freehand is going to be faster once you get some skill, especially for touch-ups.

The Norton waterstones, if you already have them, are a great set for most kitchen cutlery and woodworking tools. A bit of a learning curve with them as well, start out on some dollar store or Goodwill knives and you'll be getting your culinary knives in great shape in no time.
 
HeavyHanded said:
Using stones freehand will have a longer learning curve but ultimately give you a very convenient skill that can be applied to a huge selection of sharpening media.

The guided systems will give you a better edge out of the box, but will not really advance your sharpening skills beyond the observational. Freehand is going to be faster once you get some skill, especially for touch-ups.

The Norton waterstones, if you already have them, are a great set for most kitchen cutlery and woodworking tools. A bit of a learning curve with them as well, start out on some dollar store or Goodwill knives and you'll be getting your culinary knives in great shape in no time.
Click to expand...

Thank you HeavyHanded - I've been very intimidated about messing up my nice knives with the waterstones. Great suggestion getting some goodwill knives to practice on - I'll do just that and give them a shot before I dip into the systems with jigs.
 
Here's the real deal on what to invest in.

I think the jigs are perfect for folders but what if you want to Sharpen a straight razor, an axe, a single bevel kitchen knife or a knife in the field.

While you have eliminated some variables to get a sharp edge you have limited what you can sharpen.
 
The other folks gave good ideas, so I'll try to contribute a n00b perspective. My opinion is worth precisely two cents :D

Basically, knife sharpening combines a few skills: sharpening at a constant angle, setting a good apex, deburring, and knowing which stones to use and in which progression.
Guided systems where no movement of the blade is possible (e.g. Lansky, KME systems) more or less takes care of the first issue, allowing you to focus on learning the rest of the skills well.

My answer is that there are 3 factors that would guide that choice: 1) how good are you with your hands? 2) what your budget is? and 3) how sharp do you really want it?
if 1) you are super good with your hands already - then you probably will get the hang of freehand sharpening pretty quick.
If 2) you're super broke - then a cheap combination stone is pretty much all you can get for < 20$ (except for some eyebrow-raising systems from China sold on eBay). Also, the guided systems with continuous angle selection (which I think is muuuch better than the pre-determined angle ones) tend to be pricier.
If 3) you want a super-duper fantastic, beyond-mirror-polished edge, then a higher-end guided system like the Wicked Edge will meet that need

Personally, I have a Lansky system and I'm also learning free-hand. Why? Because 1) it is hard to match the existing angle of a blade on a Lansky guided system (can be done - still tricky), so I end up grinding more, 2) I have different angles along the blade, depending on the radius from the clamp, 3) there is extra grinding at the extremities to do for the same reason - brings some roundness.

That being said, I know myself enough to know I wouldn't have considered free-hand sharpening without learning the other skills on a guided system.
 
Thank you all for the feedback.

malaverdiere - that Wicked Edge system looks super slick! wow!

My current plan based on y'alls advice is to hang steady on investing in a jig/guided system for now. I'm gonna pick up a few knives at goodwill and try my hand with the stones (I already own them) to try to get a feel for free-hand We'll see how that goes without the risk of using any of my nicer blades.

Thanks everyone for the thoughts and recommendations! Some great advice.
 
I have the norton waterstones and they are a fantastic place to start. I will suggest looking at something different than the 220 grit stone tho. It is ridiculously soft and dishes really easy. Not a big deal tho if you don't plan on repairing any chips tho.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
 
cap'njake said:
I have the norton waterstones and they are a fantastic place to start. I will suggest looking at something different than the 220 grit stone tho. It is ridiculously soft and dishes really easy. Not a big deal tho if you don't plan on repairing any chips tho.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yeah, that stone is hard to love, or even like. I find if I emphasize or even use exclusively with a trailing pass it sheds and dishes less while still working reasonably fast.
 
HeavyHanded said:
Yeah, that stone is hard to love, or even like. I find if I emphasize or even use exclusively with a trailing pass it sheds and dishes less while still working reasonably fast.
Click to expand...
I will have to try that. I'm looking at getting either a imanishi pink brick or one of the nubatama stones to replace that one with.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
 
The King 240 is a good stand in. Also the DMT XC is good for that job. Is not easy to find good coarse stones once you start getting particular.

My current favorite is this:
https://www.nordicskaters.com/produ...is/1605/zandstra-foss-elite-sharpening-stone/

At close to $40 is not the cheapest alternative, but it works great with long soak. The coarse side is a beast and the "fine" side does a great job setting the edge up for the 1k. Basically a bevel setting machine - it doesn't make very good edges by itself.
 
I used to sharpen knives on water stones by hand, and on good days, I could put pretty nice edges on them. But I was in the dark. I was doing it with my intuition than knowledge.

With a guided system (Edge Pro Apex in my case), I quickly learned some fundamentals about sharpening in a simpler way because you do not have to worry about keeping the angle. That big variable is gone. I quickly learned how a uniform burr throughout the edge looks like and feels like, what constant scratches look like, how to remove burrs and wire edges, and what kind of stones work best for a given steel. I am sure that you will be able to learn them with hand sharpening, but it may take longer without right instructions. That was my case.

The good thing is that now I think I can try to re-learn hand sharpening. I have better ideas regarding what to look for now. I wish I got a guided system before spending a lot of money on various water stones. Some of them are useless on super steel knives I own……



Miso
 
miso2 said:
I used to sharpen knives on water stones by hand, and on good days, I could put pretty nice edges on them. But I was in the dark. I was doing it with my intuition than knowledge.

With a guided system (Edge Pro Apex in my case), I quickly learned some fundamentals about sharpening in a simpler way because you do not have to worry about keeping the angle. That big variable is gone. I quickly learned how a uniform burr throughout the edge looks like and feels like, what constant scratches look like, how to remove burrs and wire edges, and what kind of stones work best for a given steel. I am sure that you will be able to learn them with hand sharpening, but it may take longer without right instructions. That was my case.

The good thing is that now I think I can try to re-learn hand sharpening. I have better ideas regarding what to look for now. I wish I got a guided system before spending a lot of money on various water stones. Some of them are useless on super steel knives I own……

Miso
Click to expand...

I agree... the other nice thing is that now you also have good bevels to practice freehand on. You can take an Apex sharpened knife, use just a fine stone, and practice following the established bevel, to learn the methods to better control the knife freehand (if needed).
 
The precision of a jigged system can be a 2 edged sword tho. Because any flaws in the grind of a knife will really stand out. With enough practice sharpening freehand you can sometimes hide said flaws a little bit.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
 
cbwx34 said:
I agree... the other nice thing is that now you also have good bevels to practice freehand on. You can take an Apex sharpened knife, use just a fine stone, and practice following the established bevel, to learn the methods to better control the knife freehand (if needed).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the comment cbwx34. True. If I can retain the bevel, I should be good to go.
One reason I would like to try hand sharpening again is to know whether slight convex is actually better in performance.


Miso
 
miso2 said:
Thanks for the comment cbwx34. True. If I can retain the bevel, I should be good to go.
One reason I would like to try hand sharpening again is to know whether slight convex is actually better in performance.


Miso
Click to expand...

My freehand gets serviceable edges, as in cleanly shave arm hair with a little pressure, but no more than that. With guided systems I can get non-irritating face shaving sharp if I want. Making nice and even bevels for later free handing is another positive. But guided systems always take way longer and I believe that at least knocking the corners off of the V bevels improves performance and you can't easily do that with guided systems. So both have their pros and cons. I do believe that getting familiar with sharpening using a guided sharpener made me much more comfortable with toying around with free handing it. It also gives me something consistent to lean on when seeing which stones work best for my uses with which knives.

But then again, I don't go entirely crazy with guided sharpeners either, with stop collars and constant flipping or whatever else people do. I'm sure guys can get sharper edges than me but I'd consider mirror polished and comfortable face shaving and hair whittling sharp enough for what I need.
 
As already noted, guided systems gave me very consistent and repeatably edge bevels quickly without a long learning curve. Now I'm considering free-hand just to develop that skill. But I will probably still rely on my systems for most of my sharpening.
 
Free hand sharpening for speed and great results. Jigged systems are slower in my opinion, but produce machine like results. I'm probably not the best free hand sharpener but I enjoy it and get really great results. Mirror edges have been easier on jigged systems. YMMV.
 
I'll pretty much mirror the previous few responses- I'll occasionally freehand sharpen a knife. I'll be feeling pretty good, with my feathers spread and ready to strut. I'll test it and it doesn't push cut phone book paper slowly (might slice, though). My feathers retract and I'll finish with the Edge Pro or Wicked Edge with far superior results, so much quicker and easier.
 
Get a simple angle guide that clamps to the spine of the blade and sharpen freehand. Cheap and effective solution. You won't need the guide all the time, just once in a while to maintain the bevel you prefer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top