wats the fuss btw 420 hc and 154cm?

J

jln26

Joined
Aug 16, 2001
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115
hey there i just attained my EDC 420hc. the store din have the 154cm anymore :(. however since i got the 420hc it has been shaving sharp. been using it to cut stuff like carton boxes, paper, nylon strings, rope. and the usual stuff that urban dweller will use a knife for. however i live in a very humid country as a result the dear=ler told me that a 420hc steel would be able to have a better resistance to the weather as compared to the 154cm. dont noe if this is true, pls clarify. but i stil dont understand y there is a big fuss that 420hc is so useless, for me its holding up just fine. pls confer...
 
Adding the HC (High Carbon) to 420 steel is relatively recent, at least in the popular knife world. The steel that everyone automatically thinks of when they hear 420 is 420J2 -- also known as "butter steel," and similar things. A very high percentage of the real POS knives of the world have 420J2 steel for the blade. It has low carbon content, so can't be made very hard, therefore can't hold an edge much more than a couple minutes, some think.

I read somewhere that Darrel Ralph was very concerned about the thought of using 420 steel for the EDC. He was apparently given a demonstration of 420HC, and was satisfied that it was an adequate steel to use for his collaboration knife.

Even with the added carbon, 420HC is not likely to hold an edge as well as 154Cm steel. Whether or not it takes as good an edge may be fairly subjective. It very well might do a bit better in the stainless department than 154CM, but the differences are not likely to be striking, I don't think.

I got the ArcLite in the 420HC steel -- that is all that was available. It has resisted my corrosive body sweat pretty well, this far. I think you'll be okay with it on your EDC. I'd just be sure to check your edge fairly frequently, to make sure it is as sharp as you need it. The big worry in a steel not known for holding an edge is that it may get used for utility purposes, and then if a self defense situation forces you to rely on the knife, that the blade won't be sharp enough to do what you need it to do..

The easiest solution to that is to carry 2 or more knives. I carry around 4 most of the time, but then again, I'm a certified paranoiac. You probably aren't. To me, though, it only makes sense to have a "fall back" blade somewhere on you, whatever it is.
 
I'll just add that 154CM / ATS34 (different brand names for essentially the same steel) is the least stainless of the stainless steels used for knives, and 420HC is one of the most stainless, so that dealer does know what he's talking about. In a hot humid seaside environment 420HC might actually hold its edge better because of less edge corrosion, depending on how and how often it's used and cared for. Preventing cosmetic staining is definitely easier.

With the new cryogenic heat-treatment Camillus is using 420HC is significantly harder than it used to be, and it's gradually overcoming its reputation for mediocrity as more and more of us knife knuts realize how much better it is with the new cryo treatment. It still isn't one of the top edge-holding steels but it's quite decent even in environments that aren't particularly corrosive.
 
ok 420J is better in corrosion..
cos less carbon..
etc.. to much to explain..
ok.. let me tell u this...
sharpless of a materail ..... does not depend only on hardness.
any material can be sharpen to razor sharp. the only problem is tat how loong can the material hold the edge..
ok.. a piece of paper can be sharp as it can cut u..
a piece of AL can also be sharpen to razor sharp but it wont last...
i give u this formual... P=F/A... can be use to calculate the sharpless of any materail...
if u wan to knw... reply to me... cos idont wan to explain it here.. tooo much to type...
420hc is good.. and hard materail to me is no goo. cos it chip easliy and not strong due to brittle
 
I used a Mini Buck folder in 420HC and was devistated by the... Can I even use the term performance? I bought this knife as it was marked 444C Which I assumed was code for 440C steel.

I used this knife to cut some fuzz sticks while camping and found it was butter knife dull in about 5 mins, I thought the factory edge was to blame so I pulled out my fine and U Fine pocket DMT stones and started to sharpen it. Fine, same result. I put down this 'knife' and used my Lainheart SEAL knife which finished the job and then some. The Lainheart was ATS-34 as a RC of about 56. It killed the crappy 420HC.

If rust is a concern, use Tuf Cloth or get a Black TI coated blade.

I really dislike 420HC. Perhaps for an average Joe Slow user it is fine, but I want a knife to do basic chores around the camp site and not need resharpening every five mins! I own 2 of the 154CM EDC's and I can't recommend them enough.

YMMV
 
That's odd. I've used 420HC for cutting fuzz sticks lots of times, and have never had the blade go seriously dull on me.

Were you whittling down iron wood or something? ;)
 
No, I doubt it was Ironwood!:)

Perhaps this...ahem "new" 420HC treated by Camillus is better than the Buck stuff? To be honest I don't want ANY knife in this steel so I doubt I will find out.
 
Camillus just does a better heat treat on the 420hc IMHO. Phil Gibbs (at camillus) has went to the extreme to make this steel be all it can be.
 
I have had a couple of the old 440 or possbly the 420 in the past and the dayumed things would go dull just sitting around.

I trust Camilllus and when they said the 420hc was an alright steel I took them at their word.
I have an Arclite in the 420hc and it takes and holds a wonderful edge. After the initial sharpening I give almost any new knife I haven't needed to sharpen it again, actually not even to strop it.
Admitedly it doesn't get a whole lot of use, but I'm dayumed pleased to have a knife that's as sharp when I go to use it as when I put it in its sheath.
Camillus Rules IMO!!!!!!!:D

Oh yeah!!!! I also have the EDC and the Talon in 154CM and they are both great little knives as well.
Actually I can't tell a lot of difference in the sharpening or edge holding between the two steels.:)

Worth repeating, "Camillus Rules IMO!!!!!!!":D
 
no,420 hc isnt ats 43 or 154cm, but its gotten a lot better recently. i had an arclite from camillus and enjoyed it. shaving out of the box,and held its edge fairly well for being what it was.
 
I was just gonna let this thread fly past, but Yvsa got my brain clicking.

I've used the EDC in 154CM and the ArcLite in 420HC. I am equally impressed with both. For the money, they are arguably the best knives in their class.

What Yvsa said was that he couldn't tell alot of difference in sharpening and edge holding between the two steels. I wholeheartedly concur! In fact, if you give virtually any average schmoe two EDCs.... one in 420HC and one in 154CM.... they could NOT tell you which one is which. Even die hard knife knuts. I'm not talking about sitting down with a pile of rope and counting cuts here. I'm talking carry it around, use it like you should, basic every day carry stuff. I found that the two materials are that close.

I go into a knife shop and see a Camillus EDC and wanna buy it, I ain't even gonna ask which steel it is. Out the door it goes.
 
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