Wave or Fixed Blade for EDC and SD?

G

Gear Dog

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Aug 14, 2014
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I recently bought a Spyderco Endura wave for my EDC and as one self defense option. So far I really like it but am still getting practiced with quick, reliable opening. It works for me better with some pants than others. I saw a video about the Ka-Bar TDI and how it is a faster, simpler draw, and it intrigues me.

Are there wave users who can comment and whether there are fixed-blades that are better than the Endura Wave for both EDC and a quick-draw defense tool? Or should I just forget about it and keep practicing with my Endura?

I've thought about the TDI, Esee Izula, Columbia River Knife Minimalist Bowie, or possibly a punch knife like the Cold Steel SafeKepper 3. But I would not want to carry something that looks screwy or is uncomfortable when I’m out and about.

Thanks
 
Firearm for SD. If I didn't have so much stuff on my belt, the TDI may have been an option. But, I much prefer a knife clipped to my pocket.
 
You go ahead and keep practicing quick draws.
Soon you will begin to see that fix blades are speedier by a fraction.
Which may not seem much at first,
But speed really is of the essence.
Simply because there is less fidgeting to be wasted on.
Folders work well for concealment and carry.
Because it is more compact.
Whatever you choose,
It pays to get intimate with your edc.
Muscle memory is important.
Placement, deployment and ingrained split second draws
Are dependant on absolute familiarity of your choice.
Each knife differs in weight and size.
As would locking mechanisms and opening methods.
Your physical size, stature must also be a consideration.
As would your surrounding or the areas you would be in.
The local population and it's habits and customs is also a consideration.
Dressing, mannerisms must be taken into account.
As for the tool it self,
You want a balanced feel or weight in your edc.
It should feel comfortable and controllable during dynamic manipulations.
You certainly don't require extra worries whilst under a heavy strain.
After going through a couple of choices
you will recognise the points to look for in your choice for a silent partner.
Pick what is physically and mentally comfortable for you.
For wear, for carry, for Edc deployment.
There are a ton of knives out there
And only a bad artist would insist on blaming his brushes...
 
The Ka-bar tdi that I had, had the worst sheath retention ever.

Use a firearm for sd tho.
 
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I use a combination of common sense, situational awareness, and an XDs .45 for SD. I guess if I ran out of ammo and couldn't run away I'd use whatever knife I was EDC'ing but SD isn't really a consideration for me when buying a knife since I have a carry permit, enough guns and very accurate with all especially my EDC which oddly enough is the least accurate of all of them inherently but it's fine with lots and lots of practice...back on subject, if I was going to use a knife for SD, I'd still carry the same "EDC rotation" but I'd also buy and carry a spyderco civilian since SD is exactly what it was designed for and from what I hear does a damn good job of it.
 
We've got to take into account that not everyone can carry a firearm, or even has the cash to spend on one.

As for SD, I would have to agree with Girlymann that speed is really of the essence in a situation like that, and the last thing you would want to do is fail at a wave or similar deployment of a folder.

True story: My friend was at a bar two weeks ago having drinks with some friends and their wives. Another group of guys started getting rowdy and calling out their wives, disrespecting them. Of course one thing leads to another and a fight broke out. The guy my friend squared away with was obviously tipsy and kept reaching into his pocket and bringing his empty hand back out. After 2 failed attempts, my friend realized what he was trying to do (wave his pocket knife) and had enough time to get a bottle off the bar and smash it over this dude's head. The manager called the cops and my buddy and his friends took off.

I would probably say stick with a fixed blade, because you don't want to choke like that when it really matters. Other than that, ak585479 makes a great point of common sense combined with situational awareness. Keep your wits about you and don't deliberately put yourself in sketchy situations.
 
grownstar said:
We've got to take into account that not everyone can carry a firearm, or even has the cash to spend on one.
Click to expand...

Exactly, some of us live in countries with very strict (and very negative) gun laws. With all their shortcomings, knives are still vastly superior to bare fists (and I've been teaching and competing in wrestling and muay thai for quite a few years now, so I'm familiar with fists).

Anyway, I think fixed blades are better tools than folders for any type of knife use including self defence. Their only drawback is that in urban environments depending on how you dress, a full size fixed blade knife might be difficult to carry all day and socially awkward. With a folder you can get a longer blade in a package that's easier to carry.

So, if you can carry a good fixed blade without it causing you any discomfort or problems, go for it. Otherwise a folder is a better choice. If SD is a real concern, I'd rather have a folding blade with a longish blade than a fixed blade with a tiny handle and very short blade.

Whatever you choose, get a trainer (there's an Endura trainer that you can wave with a Dremel) and practice realistically. Trying to deploy a pocket knife while one or more guys attack you, even with gloves and at a gym, is challenging and will open your eyes real quick. Knives, like guns, can be effective SD tools but they aren't magic talismans. Train, train, train. IMHO, finding a good teacher who has a realistic method (not some crazy guy who thinks he's a super ninja commando) is more important than finding the perfect knife.
 
I always use a wave for self defense. That and a smile.

If that doesn't work, my GP100 does.
 
Personally, since I can't carry a firearm, the best option for me is to carry my waved Kershaw Emerson 6K in my back pocket, if I'm going somewhere that could involve a sketchy situation.

I've gotten good at waving it, so I have about a 90% success rate, and can do it pretty damn fast too. You just have to focus a little more on what your doing than you would with a fixed blade.

Oh and I legally can't carry a fixed blade concealed around here anyway, so that's not an option. Plus it's less comfortable, socially unacceptable, etc. And it's interesting to note that it usually takes just as long for me to draw a fixed blade from IWB, as it takes to wave the 6k from my back pocket, but the key difference being how uncomplicated it is.
 
As for the wave on your endura, twist the knife away from your body slightly to improve the draw. At least one member here has put together a picture tutorial on making the wave more reliable.
 
The wave seems simpler but they're not bullet proof -- in a tense situation it may not snag your pocket just right. It won't take long until the regular thumb hole opening is second nature.

The one time I thought I needed to pull a folder in a hurry I found that the real time is spent figuring out WTF is happening and deciding to draw. The knife doesn't need to be fast but it needs to be something you can reliably deploy... Or it can just be a tool like it is for 99.99% of us.
 
mayhemflipper said:
The Ka-bar tdi that I had, had the worst sheath retention ever.

Use a firearm for sd tho.
Click to expand...

I bought one when they first came out. I was not impressed with it at all. The sheeth retention was just one of my problems with it. The one I bought was a fully serrated model and the serrations were very thin at the tip. I chipped off several of them and didn't even know how I did it. This was not a cutter, it was a self defense tool so I couldn't even think of anything I ever cut with it.
 
collim1 said:
I bought one when they first came out. I was not impressed with it at all. The sheeth retention was just one of my problems with it. The one I bought was a fully serrated model and the serrations were very thin at the tip. I chipped off several of them and didn't even know how I did it. This was not a cutter, it was a self defense tool so I couldn't even think of anything I ever cut with it.
Click to expand...

On mine I first heated the sheath throath gently with a hot air blover and squeezed it slightly together to give it a bit more friction. That did not help much, so I drilled a small, 3 mm hole in the sheath near the throath and fixed it with a small bolt and nylock nut, using washers on both sides. That gave more support to the throath and solved the retention problem. Also I rounded the corner of the blade so it wont dig in to index finger.

Otherwise I like the plain edge TDI a lot. It is small, can be sharpened easily to hair shaving sharp and the and drawing it is easy.
 
If a person can't carry a firearm, or wants a backup to their firearm, I see no reason a knife can't be a viable SD options - as long as people recognize the risks of carrying any weapon. Speaking strictly for myself, I'm fortunate to have never been in any sort of physical altercation in my adult life, but I recognize that I'm not going to have a size or strength advantage in most situations. It's well established how quickly a determined attacker can close the distance against a gun-wielding defender, and that fine motor skills deteriorate very quickly in intense situations. Even something like pepper spray or a blunt device (baton, flashlight, etc.) diminishes in effectiveness once a person is right on top of you, if for no other reason than they all require freedom of movement. A sharp knife can inflict serious damage with less movement. Yes, a knife - or any weapon - can be used against you if you're overpowered and it's taken from you, but if someone is on top of you and throwing punches or choking you, they've already gone for the lethal option . . . although that may not appear to be the case in the eyes of the law if you end up in court. That's more philosophical than I'm going to get into, and an excuse some folks use to argue that people shouldn't be able to use a gun for defense.

I have fixed blade knives that I'd be satisfied with for SD under the right circumstances, but those circumstances don't include my typical environment. A neck knife, boot knife or even a sheathed knife on my belt will not play nice with what I'm wearing to the office or when out and about most of the time, and since I have the benefit of CCing a handgun, I simply make a point to EDC an SD-suitable folding knife as a backup to the handgun and/or an option of last resort if I'm somewhere (or wearing something) that prevents CC. Yes, the potential loss of fine motor skills can present a problem, but including stress drills in practice (as used in CC firearm courses) can have at least some positive results. While brandishing a knife can of course cause problems all on its own, if a situation gets to the point where a weapon is introduced in the first place, a knife still may have deterrent value . . . more than pepper spray or a flashlight, in my personal opinion.

KeSPe8n.jpg
 
I use my 111mm SAK for self defense. :D Actually the one that I would choose that I own now is the ZT 0770CF for this purpose and I have been carrying it since I purchased it. I like it since it is about the size of the Delica (my favorite size for edc). Never really liked the Endura size, but for true self defense, blade length does matter which is why you see governmental limits on blade lengths.

Fixed blades are faster with the proper sheath. I like Bob Dozier's horizontal belt sheaths for this and have a number of his models with this sheath. For me the Canoe works, but it is small.
 
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