Way OT - Snake Bit Dog (minor Busse content)

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Nov 27, 2005
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Hey guys,

My little dog got bit by her second copperhead today ( I'm assuming copperhead since that's what we see the most of, but I didn't see the snake -- wish i would have -- it would have been nice to have revenge with the Battle Mistress or Ruck!) She's okay, just has a softball sized goiter on her chin :(

Anyway, just wondering if anyone knows any good home remedies? We took her to the vet, because it happened mid-day. But we live in a rural area and this could very easily happen at night. I've heard a few old wives tales about farm remedies, and I know sometimes they can work. Any advice?

If nothing else, I know Lacie would get some sympath from Amy ;)

Laciesnakebite002.jpg
 
No remedies, but take good care of that Pal, looks like she's out of danger and doing ok.:thumbup: :thumbup:
 
Sorry to hear Lacie got bit... And by a copperhead too! Don't know of any home remedies... so I can't help ya there. :o
 
i've always heard dogs had a higher resistance to certain types of snake venom, is there any truth to that?
 
dogs deal with rattlesnake and copperhead venom much better than humans do. I suggest getting the antivenin when one can afford it. It runs about $600 a vial. My wife is a vet and her clinic sees about 100 or so snake envenomations a year. Rattlesnakes in Kalifornia. Cats have a higher tolerance of rattlesnake venom but a higher tendancy to react poorly with the antivenin.
 
Found a few bits, most of which are aimed at humans, but the theory is sound and I don't see why some of it can't be applied to any mammal

I'm a huge dog lover and feel for your situation... it must be an awful feeling, and you must feel very helpless on the spot.... I hope she gets better soon


Beyond these first aid measures, the following guidelines can be followed for emergency field treatment. These steps can be used by anyone with some experience in first aid (professional or otherwise) and by anyone with some reasonable common sense.

* Avoid exciting and exerting the victim; this increases circulation and spreads venom.
* Give the victim a large amount of reassurance with your own confidence; poisonous snake bites are rarely fatal.
* Kill the snake if possible and keep for identification.
* Apply a flat tourniquet between the bite site and the hear loose enough to allow one finger beneath it. Do not apply and remove intermittently. Loosen as swelling develops.
* Cleanse area and incise linearly through skin only 1-1/4 inches above the fang marks. Do not make cross cuts.
* Express venom with fingers or suction cup. Do not use mouth suction.
* Rest arms and legs horizontally.
* Administer antivenom by vein if feasible.
* Arrange for transport of the patient to a medical facility.


Found this here


Hopefully some useful tips... I've seen people use a large cooking syringe with a plastic egg cup attached for a greater suction area... stick the syringe through the bottom of the cup and voila!!!


EDIT:

Pressure immobilization (PI) : means applying a wide, firmly wrapped Ace bandage (or several of them) to the bitten limb in the same way you would wrap a sprain. This is not a tight arterial tourniquet and should not occlude blood flow. The wrapped limb is then splinted and kept below the heart. Clinical toxicologist Dr. Julian White suggests that PI can effectively delay the onset of systemic symptoms for many hours. PI is recommended for most elapid bites and some viper bites which are known to cause life threatening systemic symptoms such as respiratory paralysis, especially when transport to the hospital may be delayed and/or when local damage is not a concern. Some species are not known to cause localized necrosis, only systemic symptoms which can be effectively delayed with PI during transport to a medical care facility.


Also found this here


Treatment.
Treatment in the field:
1. Don’t get bit. Pay attention where you put your parts, particularly hands and feet. Leave snakes you find alone - don’t play with them or try to kill them.
2. Know what snakes are likely to be in your area, what they look like, and preferably something about their habits and habitats.
3. If bitten, immediately move away from the snake to avoid being bitten again.
4. Remain calm. Most people do not die from snake bites, even if untreated (nonetheless it is a potentially life-threatening medical emergency and should be treated as such!).
5. Immediately remove all jewelry from bitten limb, especially rings from fingers. These can act as tourniquets after swelling develops and necessitate amputation.
6. Vacuum pump. If I had a Sawyer Extractor I would make immediate use of it (within 3 minutes of bite) on the belief that although the efficacy is uncertain, its use cannot hurt (see later discussion under Specific Treatments).
7. Immobilize patient and bitten limb if possible. Passively transport the victim if possible. Bite should be kept at or slightly below heart level.
8. Treat for shock if victim feels faint, but do not elevate bite above heart.
9. Treat respiratory or heart failure immediately.
10. Limb wrapping: see discussion under Transport of Toxins, above. Wrapping and splinting of the limb (the splint helps to immobilize) to inhibit lymph flow is definitely indicated for neurotoxic venoms. Particularly if far from a hospital. For snakes with enzymatic/hemotoxic venom the situation is less clear because of the likelihood of increased local tissue toxicity. Based on my current understanding, my personal choice would probably be not to wrap for these snakes. I probably would splint the limb, however, and, if possible I would keep the bite at or slightly below heart level to minimize swelling.
11. Get to a hospital. Antivenom is the best treatment, although allergic reactions are possible. Prompt administration (within 4 hours is recommended) will minimize effects of the venom.
12. Call the hospital beforehand (or preferably en route) to notify them of the situation and allow them to prepare.

What not to do:
1. Don’t give alcohol. Give fluids only as necessary to prevent dehydration and only if several hours away from hospital.
2. Don’t give stimulants, sedatives, or blood-thinning analgesics (aspirin).
3. Don’t use tourniquets.
4. Don’t cut and suck. Don’t excise (cut out) the bite area.
5. Don’t use cold pack or ice bath (cryotherapy).
6. Don’t cauterize the wound.
7. Don’t use electric shock.


Here are a few links to different google searches

Search criteria:

Field treat snake bite

field treatment of snake bites

snake bites on dogs

snake bites on mammals

venomous bite treatment in the field



Should keep you going!


Alex :D
 
One article on topic... Just look up dogs snake bites, and vitamin C on Google for a bunch of info.

*** I have personally seen Vitamin C save a 9 pound Patterdale whom got bit in a GS set from a full RS invenemation, I have no doubt it works.


VITAMIN C

Snake venom affects the nervous system, it slows it down until natural functions stop or are inadequate to support life. A dog's eyes will dilate, looking all black soon after being bitten. So if your dog appears slow, lethargic or distressed, check the eyes. The dog may have had a snake bite while out of your sight.

Our experience is that most bites appear to be not seen, leaving the dog to show signs of distress before examination shows the problem. By this time it is generally too late for conventional cures to work, or cause severe organ damage if successful.

Fang marks can be hard to find as not all bites bleed. If the strike is fresh, there will be a wet area, however, most bites are located a few days later when the hair falls out around the wound.

The big advantage of using vitamin C is that it is readily available from a variety of locations, it is easy to store, and can be carried on a hunt without any special requirements. All you need is a 50 ml. bottle of Vitamin C, a 20ml syringe, and large needles around no. 18 size. Keep it in the fridge between hunts.

Dogs of 66 lbs to 110 lbs would need 10 to 15 mls by intra-muscular injection to the side of the neck. Depth of 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch is needed. If you are worried about this, just get it under the skin at the minimum. However muscle penetration is preferred, particularly if the dog has advanced symptoms.

You can do follow up injections to ensure the venom has been detoxified. An overdose of Vitamin C does no more than give the dog diarrhoea. Anaphylaxis cannot occur, and the type of snake does not matter.

You can use vitamin C tablets as the follow up if you are happy with the initial improvement. The dog by now will not be in the mood to have more needles.

The tablets can be crushed and used on the bite to detoxify the wound, but it is no replacement for the injection.

The powdered tablets can be used on humans to ease bug bites, such as bull ant or red back spider. I do not know anyone game enough to try the Vitamin C shots on themselves after a snake bite, but I guess its an option if you are desperate enough.

One case to use as an example is a Jack who was find barking under the veranda, that showed no signs of a bite when called out, and nothing was seen under the house. An hour later at dusk, the Jack was find rigit and finding it hard to breath. 5 mls was injected into the neck muscles which the dog did not feel. The owners family were all in tears and probably in need of a shot themselves.

After about 40 minutes, the Jack started to breath a bit easier, and the stiffness started to abate. Another 5mls was injected into the neck, this time she felt the needle..

About 2 hours after the first shot, the dog was on the move again, wondering what all the fuss was about. Next morning 2x1000 mg, human Vitamin C tablets were given as a backup.

We have heard of all types of animals being given this treatment successfully.
 
Vitamin C --- Lots of it. I heard that too , years ago in Florida. it helps!:thumbup:
sorry about your pup...bad snake, cut that $uckers head right off if U ever see um'
 
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