WE Knife Company Model 617F: The unboxing and initial impression (highly critical)

[RLDubbya]

Note: this is not a complete review, not by any stretch. These are my working notes based upon opening the knife and looking at it both superficially and closely for the first time. A lot of my remarks are highly critical; to say that I am not a big fan of the knife is probably the understatement of the decade. However, given some time to both use the knife and to reflect upon my initial thoughts, I might well find those initial thoughts which are negative to be tempered to a high degree.

Please, if you choose to read this, do not read it as a final review. Keep in mind that my thoughts might become more charitable over time. By all means, go and spend $120 and get a copy of the knife in your own hands, before you let hurt feelings dictate an angry response to my thoughts.

Add post-posting: it has been established that the poster is an ignorant ape who is also illiterate. The said ignorant ape would ask that you simply skip over this post, do not read it, and the ape will not be responding to any further comment. The ape apologizes for posting his notes on this site.

I have been hesitant to purchase a more expensive WE. I recently had good reason to purchase a budget knife, so I picked up a WE 617F. I had wanted the "A" model, but it was out of stock at my preferred vendor; all they had, in fact, was the "F", so I scooped it up. First impression, opening the box in the kitchen with my wife.

She says it reminds her of army, the star hardware seems like an army thing to her.

The blade is supposed to be two-toned; both of us struggle to see anything but one color. We both hold the knife various ways; after a couple minutes, we conclude that either (a) I misread the description, and it's supposed to be one color (b) If I polish the blade, the second color will appear (c) we're both somehow blind to the second color.

The knife deploys nicely. Wife is impressed when I shave my arm hair. (Note to self: right arm is pretty void of hair from testing blade sharpness after using my new strop. Must remember to shave left arm, or another body part.)

We "ooh" and "aah" over the zippered case; that definitely makes a good impression.

Since it's the first flipper I've had, and the first she has even seen, I deploy the blade a few times. It feels OK: but really not that solid. The liner lock, in particular, seems a bit flimsy. But we "ooh" and "aah" some more over the shiny blade snapping out into position. Wife concludes that I look more "dashing" with the flipper than with the K2. At 6', 270lbs, and a face that makes a Mack truck shudder, I take that as a good thing. Lesson: the uglier the model, the prettier the knife.

I head upstairs to my workshop, turn on the high-intensity work light, pull out a work pad, and open the box again.

The outer cardboard box identifies the knife as "617F- Tan G10 Handle - Satin Blade - D2 Blade". No mention of 2 tone. I go to the vendor's site: it clearly says "two-tone" and the picture of the knife they have for the 617F matches everything about mine, except theirs is 2 tone. I go to the WE knives site. They show a two-tone bladed knife. I look at my copy: it's a one tone blade, even upstairs on my work table. No magikal morphing. Big, big points against the knife for this.

I wipe down the blade with some Flitz; it glistens in the halogen light. It's OK sharp. The grind is...well, kind of crappy when I look at it closely. There are inconsistencies in the grind angle, especially at the heel and tip. It almost looks like multiple passes were made at slightly differing angles. There are random belt / grinder marks in the grind, like it can't decide if it's supposed to be toothy-sharp or polished-sharp. There's a tiny little extra nub, almost like a burr, near the heel on one side. Near the tip, it looks like the very end of the tip has been rolled over slightly.

If this was a $300 knife, it would be boxed up and returned, and I would be demanding a refund.

So much for the grind. So we're taking points away for not being the knife in the pictures I thought I was buying, and the grind.

The rest of the blade looks pretty good after being polished. The main portion of the blade has vertical brushing; the area surrounding has horizontal. Not an issue; the finish marks are expected, they look fine.

There is weird jimping on the blade spine near the heel. I hope it's a fashion statement, because it affords no increased purchase on the blade. Oh: the jimping is tan, matching the handle. I guess that's my two-tone blade. Technically, like weasel-words from the mouth of an attorney, that does make the knife two-toned.

Remember, at this point, I have the blade locked open; I just polished it super clean; I have not touched it. It's still super clean. I close the knife, careful to use a microfiber cloth so I don't touch the blade with my feelthy feengers.

Careful to not touch the blade, I deploy it again. It has a lot of oil, or grease, spots covering the surface. I wonder where that can be coming from?

Examining the innards with a flashlight - I'm not going to pull this knife apart - I see that the black liners are rather covered with grease. Nothing terrible; I would not knock any points off for this.

I like the design of the flipper tab and liner lock. Even I have to put some thought into how I'm going to close the blade on my fingers. Good job there.

The lock itself: well, it's a cheap liner lock. It's strength is going to depend on the quality of the liners. The liners are not skeletonized. Lock-up is very early on this knife, 15%?

The blade has only a small "D2" stamp, no other markings that I can see.

Poor centering of the blade when closed. Clearly pulled over to the presentation (non lock) side.

I'm done. In this exercise, I'm at the point where the knife just feels cheap in my hands. The G10 _looks_ good, like it should be high quality. But it disappoints when held; this is sort of the converse of the Spyderco lightweight series, where I look at the FRN handles and think they look cheap and weak, but when I hold the knife, I'm pleasantly surprised by how sturdy and solid it feels.

The 617F is clearly a $100 knife. Maybe it's a $75 knife. I'm going to purchase a Kershaw flipper for comparison. This is not a $400 knife; nor a $300 knife, nor a $200 knife, nor a $150 knife. The issue of the blade tones aside, which is a fairly serious oversight that I'm letting the company slide on, this knife is disappointing. That's probably my fault; I tend to have high standards, and I allowed myself to get caught up in the hype surrounding this company. I thought I would be getting a $300 knife for $100; that's not realistic.

However: there are some potentially serious manufacturing issues with blade grind, and assembly. Given that the pivot is supposed to have ceramic bearings, I don't want to attempt disassembly or tweaking to remedy the off-center blade.

The most glaring question I have to ask: if a company cannot be trusted to get the difference between single tone and two tone correct, can they be trusted to use the advertized material for the liners? The liners are supposed to be stainless steel. They are painted black. Are they in fact stainless? What kind of stainless? Given that my hand is trusting the liner lock, these are important questions.

 

[Hackenslash]

For starters, I place the blame on the "two-tone" blade on your vendor of choice. A quick search shows the 617F is a satin blade. Here's the knife you purchased with a single toned blade and black liners. Now that we can discount the failings of your vendor, and a supplier web site that they admit is a train wreck, let's talk about the real issues with the knife.
View attachment 686405
http://www.bladehq.com/item--WE-Knife-Co-617F-Frame-Lock-Flipper--51709
I'm not trying to be a jerk but most of your criticisms could have been answered by a little objective research.
Yes, the WE 617 is not a $300 knife, that's why it costs $100. I'm not sure why this is a problem. If you want a $200 WE, buy a $200 WE. I'd be happy to recommend some of their many excellent top line models. You wanted a Cadillac but bought a Corolla and are upset it wasn't a Cadillac?

So, we come down to an un-centered blade and a lot of oil in the knife?

I've had worse. I look forward to hearing your thoughts after you've had some rumination time.

 

[brancron]

Could we some pictures when you get a chance? Also, if I'm not mistaken, the bearings should be caged, so you won't have to worry about them flying all over the place when you take it apart.

 

[Mo2]

Careful to not touch the blade, I deploy it again. It has a lot of oil, or grease, spots covering the surface. I wonder where that can be coming from?

its D2 steel, maybe they oil it to prevent rust since its not stainless. This has to be done to prevent customers from getting a blade with corrosion on it. This is done with all there D2 blades as far as i know.

my s35vn We manufactured knife doesnt have any oil on it.

being that your model is a budget model it doesnt represent all we knife models in quality. the price in knives in general are marked up. this knife probably cost a lot less to manufacture but they have to mark it up some to make money and support the warranty and distributors. either way this budget model is far better than most other budget models.

i have high quality standards thats why i bought a different model.

The most glaring question I have to ask: if a company cannot be trusted to get the difference between single tone and two tone correct, can they be trusted to use the advertized material for the liners? The liners are supposed to be stainless steel. They are painted black. Are they in fact stainless? What kind of stainless? Given that my hand is trusting the liner lock, these are important questions.

This seems like your vendors problem not the knife problem as it was labeled correctly on the box, but not your vendors site. dont blame the product that was miss labeled on the vendors website, blame your vendor.

 

[evilgreg]

Photos would help us understand your terrible grind problems better, I think.

As for the blade being off center and there being some oil inside the knife, have you considered taking it apart and cleaning it? Plenty of off center blades center up nicely for me when I use the old "put it together with the screws still loose, wedge the blade with some paper pushing the blade to the lock side, and then tighten everything up" routine.

I'm curious about your "cheap liner lock" complaint, though--did you not know it was a liner lock when you purchased it? FWIW, I've seen more frame locks fail than I have liner locks.

 

[RLDubbya]

As I said, not a review. My notes. I hesitate to say more, but...many people are raving about the quality of this same knife, the 617F. On other posts on this very board, it has been favorably compared to much more expensive knives, with superlatives thrown about suggesting it has the same quality as a $400 knife. That's the context in which I made my notes. Yes, I'm capable of understanding that I purchased a $100 knife; yes, I'm capable of understanding that if I wanted a more expensive knife, I could have spent more money. Hey, that's the principle of charitable interpretation at play for me; I should learn, and learn not to expect much fondness for that principle. Because obviously, if you follow that principle, you can't be an expert. Dunning-Kruger says so, somewhere.

As far as the color of the knife: let's blame the vendor. But for the fact that when I go the URL printed on the box provided by WE Knife, and look up the 617F I see the following pictures, which don't look like my knife at all. And if indeed the vendor is so poor, I'll point out that I'm clearly an ignorant guy who obviously knows jack about knives; but somebody at WE picked that vendor as an authorized vendor. I simply took their name from WE's website. So maybe you're trying to say the problem is larger than I thought?

 

[Mo2]

As I said, not a review. My notes. I hesitate to say more, but...many people are raving about the quality of this same knife, the 617F. On other posts on this very board, it has been favorably compared to much more expensive knives, with superlatives thrown about suggesting it has the same quality as a $400 knife. That's the context in which I made my notes. Yes, I'm capable of understanding that I purchased a $100 knife; yes, I'm capable of understanding that if I wanted a more expensive knife, I could have spent more money. Hey, that's the principle of charitable interpretation at play for me; I should learn, and learn not to expect much fondness for that principle. Because obviously, if you follow that principle, you can't be an expert. Dunning-Kruger says so, somewhere.

As far as the color of the knife: let's blame the vendor. But for the fact that when I go the URL printed on the box provided by WE Knife, and look up the 617F I see the following pictures, which don't look like my knife at all. And if indeed the vendor is so poor, I'll point out that I'm clearly an ignorant guy who obviously knows jack about knives; but somebody at WE picked that vendor as an authorized vendor. I simply took their name from WE's website. So maybe you're trying to say the problem is larger than I thought?


View attachment 686424

your point about other reviews saying this model is like a 400$ was worded in a way that didnt explain what you ment. but your reply explains it well.^

The 617F is clearly a $100 knife. Maybe it's a $75 knife. I'm going to purchase a Kershaw flipper for comparison. This is not a $400 knife; nor a $300 knife, nor a $200 knife, nor a $150 knife. The issue of the blade tones aside, which is a fairly serious oversight that I'm letting the company slide on, this knife is disappointing. That's probably my fault; I tend to have high standards, and I allowed myself to get caught up in the hype surrounding this company. I thought I would be getting a $300 knife for $100; that's not realistic.

not sure which review you read said that. but it is commonly associated that we knives in general are comparable to ZT's in quality. if someone suggested the budget model is i would LOL. maybe the reviewer was talking about WE in general and not your specific model? hard to say but i wouldn't associate any budget with a 400 knife, regardless what anyone says. those people might be the same ones that suggest ganzo's are the same as 200+$ knifes.

 

[RLDubbya]

Photos would help us understand your terrible grind problems better, I think.

As for the blade being off center and there being some oil inside the knife, have you considered taking it apart and cleaning it? Plenty of off center blades center up nicely for me when I use the old "put it together lose, wedge the blade with some paper pushing the blade to the lock side, and then tighten everything up" routine.

I'm curious about your "cheap liner lock" complaint, though--did you not know it was a liner lock when you purchased it? FWIW, I've seen more frame locks fail than I have liner locks.

a) As a rule, I don't take apart new knives.
b) I would think that since I've apparently made it clear I'm terribly ignorant, the last thing anybody would suggest in a positive light is me taking apart and reassembling a knife.
c) Again, context, and I hate to say more, but: the knife is for a cancer benefit raffle. As such, it is not my knife; it is just being held "in escrow" if you like, by me, on behalf of the benefit. I will include a copy of the receipt for the winner, and if they want to send it back, they can; if they want to take it apart, play with it, use the blade as a throwing knife - at that point, it is their property, and they're welcome to do with it as they wish.

I'm sure if I post photos, they will be of such a terrible quality that a group will feel compelled to tell me that I'm ignorant of yet another endeavor: photography. I'll cut to the chase, and just say that I'm ignorant of everything about photography and knives, so we can eliminate any need for me to prove that with further actions, postings, etc.

As far as my use of the phrase "cheap liner lock" in my NOTES. Again, I am capable of reading, but apparently I present my reading skills as those of an ignorant ape. To be 100% clear, I knew I was getting a liner lock. I had in mind that

a) The WE website takes great pain to note the type of titanium used in screws, the pivot cap, backspacer, and clip. The WE website has a line devoted to the type of material used in the liner, and notes that it is "Stainless Steel." I find it odd that they do not note what type of stainless, nor provide any specs. I really don't care about the type of material used for a pivot cap, but I do care about the lock which is protecting my hand.
b) The cutout for the lock release is quite shallow - nearly too shallow to be effective for me; the cutout is short; the liner serrations are a bit on the smooth side, and don't quite provide enough grab, enough "bite" for my admittedly fat fingers, which have been broken a few times.

Clearly, I should not have posted my working notes. My mistake in thinking that if I clearly said they were notes, and that my views might well change for the better, that people would not emphasize my obvious illiteracy. Lesson learned.

Thank you.

 

[RLDubbya]

your point about other reviews saying this model is like a 400$ was worded in a way that didnt explain what you ment. but your reply explains it well.^

I'm just going to say this one more time: these were my notes. I thought I would share those notes. I made sure to let people know they were notes. I made sure to put disclaimers in place.

My mistake in thinking that would be a good idea. Clearly, as an ignorant ape, I should (and will in the future) keep any notes to myself.

Thank you.

 

[The Burgh]

RLDubbya,

I, for one, enjoyed reading your critical review!

I try to use the same critical analysis of a potential purchase before the purchase, just to quell my enthusiasm for any knife which strikes my (knifeaholic) fancy.

Post purchase, as I inspect the knife, I try to be as critical as possible to quell "bought-it-blinders," self induced buyer's remorse. Only then can I decide to carry/keep/sell.

Personally, I read too many reviews with gush, glitter, bubbles and hyperbole. In essence, I'd rather read a critique (in the true sense of that word).

Good writing!

 

[Hackenslash]

I think this has quit being about a knife. I wish you the best of luck with your raffle. It sounds like an excellent cause against a scourge that's affected the lives of way too many.

 

[brancron]

a) As a rule, I don't take apart new knives.

As far as my use of the phrase "cheap liner lock" in my NOTES. Again, I am capable of reading, but apparently I present my reading skills as those of an ignorant ape. To be 100% clear, I knew I was getting a liner lock. I had in mind that

a) The WE website takes great pain to note the type of titanium used in screws, the pivot cap, backspacer, and clip. The WE website has a line devoted to the type of material used in the liner, and notes that it is "Stainless Steel." I find it odd that they do not note what type of stainless, nor provide any specs. I really don't care about the type of material used for a pivot cap, but I do care about the lock which is protecting my hand.

Most knife companies don't mentioned the type of steel used for liners. Nobody really cares. You're getting so worked up about tiny things. And yes, we know they're your "NOTES," you've mentioned that eight times.

 

[BTGuy]

Thanks for the notes on your impressions of the knife, RLDubbya, and appreciate the critical observations. Only "issue" I can echo with what you found with your knife is the excess of oil. I've noticed this is pretty typical with knives made of steel that is not stainless. After a little use and wiping the bit that dribbles onto the blade that'll stop. You might be able to correct the off-centered blade easily by very slightly adjusting the pivot screw using the provided tool. After I disassembled and reassembled my 617 I deliberately left the pivot a tiny bit looser to test the difference in opening action. Then I noticed the blade was a touch off-center, so I tightened it a little and bingo. Perfectly centered again.

Best of luck with your raffle!

 

[Amoo]

It doesn't really matter what knife you criticize here, it seems most companies have their own little cultists who come running to a thread anytime something with any negative connotation at all could be written. I fail to see what's wrong with a critical review and you pointing out what you find to be flaws with the product you purchased, especially if you drew your expectations provided from others' reviews. If I purchased a cheaper Spyderco knife I would still expect the same F&F I am accustomed to with a more expensive Spyderco knife, because it has the Spydy name and logo on it. I would expect lower quality materials but not inferior workmanship. A $100 knife from any company people are trying to pass off as a reputable company should not mean you are buying a knife with crappy F&F.

 

[Hackenslash]

As I said, not a review. My notes. I hesitate to say more, but...many people are raving about the quality of this same knife, the 617F. On other posts on this very board, it has been favorably compared to much more expensive knives, with superlatives thrown about suggesting it has the same quality as a $400 knife. That's the context in which I made my notes. Yes, I'm capable of understanding that I purchased a $100 knife; yes, I'm capable of understanding that if I wanted a more expensive knife, I could have spent more money. Hey, that's the principle of charitable interpretation at play for me; I should learn, and learn not to expect much fondness for that principle. Because obviously, if you follow that principle, you can't be an expert. Dunning-Kruger says so, somewhere.

As far as the color of the knife: let's blame the vendor. But for the fact that when I go the URL printed on the box provided by WE Knife, and look up the 617F I see the following pictures, which don't look like my knife at all. And if indeed the vendor is so poor, I'll point out that I'm clearly an ignorant guy who obviously knows jack about knives; but somebody at WE picked that vendor as an authorized vendor. I simply took their name from WE's website. So maybe you're trying to say the problem is larger than I thought?


View attachment 686424

I went and looked at the WE site. I take back what I said about their website being a wreck earlier. It seems to be spot on. If you look at all three images you can tell the 617F is a satin blade...not two tone.

What you wanted was the 617E. It has the two tone blade. It looks like this, if the knife even matters at this point...
View attachment 686467

 

[Hackenslash]

It doesn't really matter what knife you criticize here, it seems most companies have their own little cultists who come running to a thread anytime something with any negative connotation at all could be written. I fail to see what's wrong with a critical review and you pointing out what you find to be flaws with the product you purchased, especially if you drew your expectations provided from others' reviews. If I purchased a cheaper Spyderco knife I would still expect the same F&F I am accustomed to with a more expensive Spyderco knife, because it has the Spydy name and logo on it. I would expect lower quality materials but not inferior workmanship. A $100 knife from any company people are trying to pass off as a reputable company should not mean you are buying a knife with crappy F&F.

The greatest critique of the knife turned out to be user error. I'm no little cultist, I just like to keep it real.

How have you enjoyed your WE knives?

 

[Amoo]

The greatest critique of the knife turned out to be user error. I'm no little cultist, I just like to keep it real.

How have you enjoyed your WE knives?

He also actually talked about the very poor factory edge as well as blade centering issue. Along with those he also managed to talk about a host of good things about the knife which many people decided to gloss right over when at the end he simply stated he wasn't fond of the overall knife that he received.

In regards to my WE, I don't own one and doubt I will. If you'd like though I'd be more then happy to talk about my Benchmade Mini-Barrage which I apparently over payed for and should have a ton of Fit and Finish issues according to most folks...

 

[Hackenslash]

He also actually talked about the very poor factory edge as well as blade centering issue. Along with those he also managed to talk about a host of good things about the knife which many people decided to gloss right over when at the end he simply stated he wasn't fond of the overall knife that he received.

In regards to my WE, I don't own one and doubt I will. If you'd like though I'd be more then happy to talk about my Benchmade Mini-Barrage which I apparently over payed for and should have a ton of Fit and Finish issues according to most folks...

I have 6 WEs and each one has one of the best blade finishes and edges I've seen on a factory knife. The centering on each one is perfect. Given the only verifiable complaint the OP had about the knife ended up being his error (blade finish), I'm going to hold out for more concrete evidence of these other "problems". Further, when a lock style utilized on the knife is described as "crappy", "flimsy" et.al., it leads me to believe I'm not hearing an unbiased, objective review. At this point, I think I can disregard these "notes". I'm a little surprised that Country of Origin hasn't been an issue yet.

You should start a thread about your Benchmade. I love BM and get sick of seeing them slammed without objectivity either.

 

[Amoo]

I have 6 WEs and each one has one of the best blade finishes and edges I've seen on a factory knife. The centering on each one is perfect. Given the only verifiable complaint the OP had about the knife ended up being his error (blade finish), I'm going to hold out for more concrete evidence of these other "problems". Further, when a lock style utilized on the knife is described as "crappy", "flimsy" et.al., it leads me to believe I'm not hearing an unbiased, objective review. At this point, I think I can disregard these "notes". I'm a little surprised that Country of Origin hasn't been an issue yet.

You should start a thread about your Benchmade. I love BM and get sick of seeing them slammed without objectivity either.

My question to you would be do you have one of their $120 knives or are all of yours their "higher end" knives? I've spend very little time researching WE knives as they are just not really for me for a variety of reasons. Heck I didn't even know they made a $120 knife as I thought everything they made was high end stuff. And like I have said MANY times in many threads, we're dealing with productions knives. I have an off center Spydy, had to exchange a ZT0350 because the detent was so bad I couldn't open it by pushing it against my desk, let alone flip it. That doesn't make ZT or Spydy bad companies, it just means mistakes happen in production knives. If you do a google search, you can actually find some knife centers which list the 0617F as a two toned model, and I would be kinda peeved as well. Now if you want to say that criticism should fall on the vendor(s) and not the company, I would agree with you there, doesn't mean it's not a fair criticism regardless of where he bought it, not like he snagged it off the bay and got hood winked.

What I will say is when somebody posts a review and talks about looking at a blade that is off centered or sharpening marks which are all over the place, those are pretty easy things to spot. Just like with my knives I have or have had, it could have been a one off, it could be indicative of the entire company. Pretty hard to say with a sample size of 1, but just because his sample size is only 1, doesn't make his criticisms of the 1 he has any less or more valid then your 6 or somebody else's 37...etc. All it means is he feel like he got a crappy knife for $120, and when you consider the other options for around $120 I would feel the same as I'm sure would many others. This doesn't mean WE knives suck or they are all terrible, it simply means the 1 knife he has in his hand probably sucks. It's a production knife, it happens even to the best companies.

 

[Hackenslash]

My question to you would be do you have one of their $120 knives or are all of yours their "higher end" knives? I've spend very little time researching WE knives as they are just not really for me for a variety of reasons. Heck I didn't even know they made a $120 knife as I thought everything they made was high end stuff. And like I have said MANY times in many threads, we're dealing with productions knives. I have an off center Spydy, had to exchange a ZT0350 because the detent was so bad I couldn't open it by pushing it against my desk, let alone flip it. That doesn't make ZT or Spydy bad companies, it just means mistakes happen in production knives. If you do a google search, you can actually find some knife centers which list the 0617F as a two toned model, and I would be kinda peeved as well. Now if you want to say that criticism should fall on the vendor(s) and not the company, I would agree with you there, doesn't mean it's not a fair criticism regardless of where he bought it, not like he snagged it off the bay and got hood winked.

What I will say is when somebody posts a review and talks about looking at a blade that is off centered or sharpening marks which are all over the place, those are pretty easy things to spot. Just like with my knives I have or have had, it could have been a one off, it could be indicative of the entire company. Pretty hard to say with a sample size of 1, but just because his sample size is only 1, doesn't make his criticisms of the 1 he has any less or more valid then your 6 or somebody else's 37...etc. All it means is he feel like he got a crappy knife for $120, and when you consider the other options for around $120 I would feel the same as I'm sure would many others. This doesn't mean WE knives suck or they are all terrible, it simply means the 1 knife he has in his hand probably sucks. It's a production knife, it happens even to the best companies.

I picked up a 617A when they first released which ended up being given as a gift. My model had no issues. I put the budget WEs in the same category as the budget Maxace knives (Red Queen, Wind and Balance), the Stedemon ZKC series and the Kizer Vanguards. Personally, I think $120 is a little overpriced for the 617 and I actually paid under $100 for mine. The WEs that I continue to have are the 601, 603, 605, 606, 615 and 616. They're some of the finest knives I own in the ~$200 price range.

OP, if you feel snakebit by the WE 617, you might consider the Stedemon ZKC. It's not as polished as the WE, but you can buy 2 of the ZKC's for what you paid for the 617 at full retail.