Wedge straight razors/kamisoris

JG Custom Metal Works

JG Custom Metal Works

Joined
Nov 27, 2013
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I know the majority of straight razors are hollow ground, but have found some aficionados like wedge shaped ones. I know we have a few straight razor guys here and wanted to pick your brain a little.

Is it even worth messing with flat ground, wedge shaped razors?

I'm playing around with the idea of maybe making a small kamisori out of 1084 for personal use. Any advice for dimensions? i.e... width/bevel height, stock thickness, bevel angel, blade length, etc...? What about heat treatment? Should I HT before grinding the bevels?

From what I've been reading, a lot of razors are 61-62 HRC. I know there are better steels for razors, but for experimental purposes, I'd like to stick with something I wouldn't have to outsource for HT.

Any help in regards to the subject would be greatly appreciated.
 
Even wedges are hollow ground, just to a less extant. It is basically impossible to make a truly flat ground razor. You would have to hone the entire bevel to 8000+ grit to get it to shave correctly.

1084 will work perfectly fine for a razor, 90% of what makes a razor work is correct geometry and honing, steel choice is Way down the list as long as it is hardenable.
 
Go to straight razor place and go to the workshop area. Lots of guys over there that do razors exclusively. Razors are not only really sharp knives.
 
+1. Also the traditional kamisoris are not wedge ground. They have an oddball single bevel grind and hollow back similar to but not the same as traditional Japanese kitchen knives.
Brian.Evans said:
Go to straight razor place and go to the workshop area. Lots of guys over there that do razors exclusively. Razors are not only really sharp knives.
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Thanks for the information gents. It seems my common sense was clouded by digging through all the nomenclature. Obviously it be a real PITA to hone a inch wide piece of steel to 8000. I guess when I read "wedge" I thought about a triangle with flat sides.

What diameter wheel are guys using to grind these things?
 
Just saw this thread and thought I would add a couple things.
JMJones said:
Even wedges are hollow ground, just to a less extant. It is basically impossible to make a truly flat ground razor. You would have to hone the entire bevel to 8000+ grit to get it to shave correctly.

1084 will work perfectly fine for a razor, 90% of what makes a razor work is correct geometry and honing, steel choice is Way down the list as long as it is hardenable.
Click to expand...
Not always. There are "true wedges", but those are more uncommon. Many people tape the spines before honing to prevent wear to the spine. In the case of 'true wedges' this would also you to create a shorter bevel.

Brian.Evans said:
Go to straight razor place and go to the workshop area. Lots of guys over there that do razors exclusively. Razors are not only really sharp knives.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I believe the area within the "The Workshop" for actually making razors is called "The Forge". I've gotten a LOT of useful information and advice in 'The Workshop' there.

JG Custom Metal Works said:
Thanks for the information gents. It seems my common sense was clouded by digging through all the nomenclature. Obviously it be a real PITA to hone a inch wide piece of steel to 8000. I guess when I read "wedge" I thought about a triangle with flat sides.

What diameter wheel are guys using to grind these things?
Click to expand...
If you get a razor professional honed, I believe most will hone the blade to at least 12-15k grit. I know some people use 20k hones and sometimes higher (if the blade can take and hold that fine of an edge).
 
I've read somewhere that back when wedge razors were popular, the wheels could be a couple feet across. But the wedge was a way to make up for the difficulties of tempering and hardening thinner blades. As tech advanced, the blades became thinner, probably because a thinner blade is easier to hone later on, and at the time a delicate item was considered to be more desirable and advanced.
 
I shave with a straight, and personally prefer a wedge blade. All of mine (5 in total) that are "wedges" are actually near wedges or quarter grind. The edges are much thicker and the extra blade mass makes getting through extra stubble a breeze!
My two favorites, a Hart steel and a Robert Williams custom, are made from O1 steel.
 
I have several 8/8wade and butchers, a few joseph Elliot7/8 to 9/8, a stenton 10/8 and a few other near wedge they are all less than quarter hollows. the weight is what you get a feel for once the stroke is started it seems to cut better. nothing wrong with 1084 or 1095 for a razor.and yes most tape the spine but the geometry still meeds to be right
 
I have been using straight razors as long as I've been shaving. I use both hollow ground ones and wedges. I far prefer wedges. Steel? With good heat treat you can't really go wrong, in my opinion, with 1095.
That said, I'd love to try an 8/8 wedge in 52100.
 
Most likely your questions have already been answered, or you found some info on SRP, but here are my thought being one of those "razor only" guys :)

Almost any steel will do which can be HT-ed to around HRC 58+, even stainless. The traditional choice is carbon steel ofc, but any steel with a fine grain structure, high hardness works, preferably easy to hone (so S90V wont be the best :) ). For this reason any knife steel works really, best being the simple high carbon steels: 1080, 1084, 1095, W1, W2, O1, O2, 52100, 5160, etc.

Kamisoris are traditionally hollow chisel ground, one side ground to the top of the spine, the other one around 2/3 up to the spine. Basically on a traditional kamisori, you would want around a 20-22 degree angle for the edge (worked best for me), but anything greater than 14-15 degrees works fine. I use 5-6mm thick steel, with a razor width of 6/8-8/8 size, you can calculate how tall you should make the hollow on the non-flat side to have a nice edge angle. Don't flat grind it, you wont be too happy with it :) You can grind the bevels before HT, just leave the edge about 0.04" thick, and grind the rest after HT. Final edge thickness will be around 0.003-0.002" or less, for an easy to hone razor.

If I have missed some questions than just let me know, I happily help where I can :)
 
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