Weird Damascus etches

O

Oliver Sommer

Basic Member
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Nov 21, 2024
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Hey everyone, I am still fairly new to making Damascus. I have had this problem on a smaller scale on other knifes but this is the biggest one I have dealt with. There are these little bright spots on the blade when I etch. If anyone knows what causes it and how to fix it and avoid it in the future, I would be very grateful.
Thanks, Oliver

I can’t figure out how to add any photos, if anyone knows how to do that I can add those too.
 
Oliver Sommer said:
Hey everyone, I am still fairly new to making Damascus. I have had this problem on a smaller scale on other knifes but this is the biggest one I have dealt with. There are these little bright spots on the blade when I etch. If anyone knows what causes it and how to fix it and avoid it in the future, I would be very grateful.
Thanks, Oliver

I can’t figure out how to add any photos, if anyone knows how to do that I can add those too.
Click to expand...
I believe it’s caused by those spots being a little more polished than the rest even though the blade looks evenly ground.In seems that the steel doesn’t etch as well at the higher grits and isn’t evident until etched.
I know its frustrating.

I believe you need to upgrade your membership in order to post photos.
 
Oliver Sommer said:
I can’t figure out how to add any photos, if anyone knows how to do that I can add those too.
Click to expand...
As a non paying member you can simply use a third party image hosting site, upload your images there, and link them from there. I use imgur.com, it works well and is free.
 
Most people polish their damascus blades to 1000 grit or higher before etching, so I doubt that is the issue! Is it little dots that are staying shiny (almost looking galvanized?) or larger areas? If it's tiny dots, it may be the acid is too strong? What are the steels in the Damascus and it is heat treated yet?

What are you etching in? If Ferric Chloride, is it diluted?

What are you cleaning the blade with pre etch? I use Dawn soap and hot water. Acetone has other additives and can leave a film on the blade, same with Denatured alcohol. The blade needs to be completely clean and free of any grease to etch properly.
 
Welcome Oliver. Fill out your profile so we know where you live. It helps with answers and offers for visits and materials.
I'm going to move this to Shop Talk, where it will get more responses.

Bright spots can be caused by several things.
One can be scale driven into the damascus by not brushing down well before each heat or not cleaning off the anvil.

Other things are in polishing and etching issues. The surface must be sanded and completely clean before etching. Any oil or fingerprints cam make spots that don't etch ... which will polish bright.

If you stop a forging session on damascus and star again later, be sure to pickle away te scale and crud from the surface. Sodium-bi-sulphate is what we use to pickle steel with. If you don't, you can make a layer that has a hard skin of scale, and it will definitely show later on.

Another cause is too low a layer count. I feel that 250-layers is the minimum and 500 is best for most blades. 1000 is really stunning especially if twisted in the early stages.
 
Thanks everyone for the help, I bought the basic so here is the photo. The steel is 1080 and 52100 from NJSB, it was the cutoff bundles. Quite a bit was ground down from the original forged shape. I also did quite a bit of grinding after the heat treat, I cleaned with wd40 and then scrub the blade with acid and a paper towel. It’s sanded to 1000 grit. The acid is ferric chloride, muriatic acid and coffee.IMG_2692.jpeg
 
WD-40 is an oil. Best to clean with dish soap and hot water before etching.

How many layers is that billet? Tell us how many bars of 1080 and 52100 you used ... and how many times you folded or restacked it. If you cut and restacked it, di you grind it fully clean before each re-stack?
I could be wrong, but the dark looks like the 1080 and the light the 52100.

It also looks like some welds didn't set fully, but that happens when learning to make damascus. The solution to that is heating a bit hotter and longer before forging the billet, and repeated forging heats to assure full welds before forging to shape. As I mentioned previously, wire brushing the biller before and after each forging heat will remove te scale. If scale gets forged into the billet it will show, and may make cold-shuts or unwelded spots.
 
Wd-40(an oil), acid and a paper towel is not how you clean a blade for etching??? You need to degrease fully, use a de greasing soap and hot water.

52100 won't stay shiny; it will etch grey. 15N20 is what gives the shiny contrast, or another high nickel content steel.

Use ferric chloride diluted with water. Coffee darkens the etch when it's done. Muriatic acid is often used for stainless since its a more aggressive etchant. I am not sure why you mixed ferric, coffee and muriatic and expected it to etch properly?

Sand the blade back to 1000, clean it properly with soap and etch in just ferric. Make sure the ferric is properly diluted with water. You gave way too many odd variables going on for us to be able to figure out why it is etching weird. The splotches look like either contamination or the etchant mix being too strong or something.
 
Air bubbles sticking to the blade during the etch.

The bigger problem is the forge welding.

Switch to 1084/15n20 until you get better at pattern welding.

Hoss
 
DevinT said:
Air bubbles sticking to the blade during the etch.

The bigger problem is the forge welding.

Switch to 1084/15n20 until you get better at pattern welding.

Hoss
Click to expand...
I usually use 1084 and 15n20, this was an experiment, seeing if it would work. I prefer it, but NJSB didn't have any 15n20 bundles available. The idea was to see if flux would be enough to clean the metal. It was a cable style billet, and worked decently well, but the etch showed some spots where it wasn't perfect. I have some other steel ordered, not sure when it will arrive.
 
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OK,
Devin's comment makes me think you are talking about the spots. If that is correct, it is bubbles, as Devin said.
I had thought you were talking about the dull etch pattern contrast.

I still think there are weld issues.

I'm curious what you mean by, "Cable Style Billet". Can you tell us what your procedure was?
 
IMG_2701.PNG
It welded the ends and around the middle. I then soaked it in flux in the forge, the problem might have been that my press was down so I had to forge it by hand, but from what I could tell when I was forging it seemed solid apart from a couple small voids. When I was trying to get a good etch it was in the acid for over a day in total time, which is why it looks all cracky.
 
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