weird question for str.....

ryan9977

ryan9977

Joined
Feb 16, 2006
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hey str.....quick question for you....is it possible for you to take a knife like a paring knife....a partial tang....and convert it into a folder.....it is a hard japanese steel laminated with stainless steel...i guess it might be hard to answer without seeing pics but would it be possible under some circumstances.....thanks for any info.....ryan
 
Really it all depends on several things.

One is that the thinness can actually play against you in paring knives. This can be hard to make a lock contact work on one that thin for very long if a frame lock type or a liner lock, and it can be problematic for a lockback with the lockbar being that small but yes it can work at times. Again thickness is key I think, and I base that on actually trying to do some thinner folders.

Currently I have found what works best for me and I try to stick with 3/32 as the minimum thickness I work with and prefer in folders and 1/8" being the max. All my own blades you see me making here are 3/32" thick stock not the standard 1/8" everyone else uses. I buy the precision milled 3/32 bar stock for mine and find that is worth every penny for the consistancy from one end of the bar to the other. Its triple the cost but I like it and have enough to last me a while yet so I won't need any for a long time.

Also, some of the stainless kitchen cutlery is, well, sometimes less than the greatest of steels and most are 56 Rockwell or less in hardness so its not always worth the effort to bother with one unless you were to get a good brand you knew was using VG10 or some other better steel.

My good friend Dirk, (Oupa) takes some carbon blades that are for the kitchen and makes some really neat friction folders out of them. I'm sure it would be very easily done with stainless also. You might want to check out some of the ones he has posted on his forum. http://forum.ramanon.com/forumdisplay.php?f=149

I have not personally converted any paring knives to a folder. I have taken fixed blades made by others as well as some I did originally for myself and converted them though but again these were plenty thick.

Just in pulling out three of my frequent users in the kitchen to look at them before posting I note that there is a taper to the paring knives I have here. In other words at the flat unground part of the handle its thinner on the bottom tapering to thicker at the top. This would not work very well for a folder if that is where it was to pivot being more a wedge shape than flat. So I'd caution looking at that and if you are ordering one mail order there is probably no way to see that until its already been paid for and delivered.

I hope that answers your question.

STR
 
thanks for the response str.....it is a good enough steel to ocnsider...it is either white or blue steel clad in stainless to prevent rust.....the maker will no longer make pocket knives and this was my attempt to have one made from his apring knife......so are you saying that a folder with a lock would only be possible if the material on the tang was thick enough?.....would it be easier to have a friction folder made from it?......i don't know alot about the construction of folders sorry.....thanks again....ryan
 
Ok. Look here at this picture and you can see what I look for from the side. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73101&d=1180589488


Looking down on the spine you want the thickness where you plan to drill your pivot hole to be the same on both the spine and the bottom down by where your blade will have the stop rest cut into it to seat it when closed. If its thinner on the bottom than it is on the top its not a good candidate for adapting to a folder.


If you see the picture in the link above note the typical shape of a liner or frame lock type folder I have drawn on it with a Sharpy. When I take a blade I make from scratch they often times look like this until the day I am ready to put one to use in a folder I am making.

Ok now that you've seen that maybe you can study this link here of a Bob Dozier fixed blade bought by a friend of mine just to have me convert it into a folder for him. He got this from Bob and had him drop ship it to me with no handles on it. It was just a blank basically with Bob's grind and heat treatment in D2.

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/776102/fromsearch/1/hl/Fixed|to|folder/tp/1/

These two blanks here have two things in common when you look at them. First they are both thick enough and uniform in thickness where the pivot will be to allow a nice pivot point and both have some good width of almost the full bar shape for contact of the lock. In other words they both have enough metal in the back unground part of the blade blank for me to adapt it to fit into a folder.

By the way here is another link of one of three Japanese White steel blades I took and made into a more modern folder for members that asked me to.
http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/s...93939/hl/Fixed+to+folder/fromsearch/1/#993939

The easiest way I know of these days for someone to get to know how to build a folder or what exactly makes them up as far as how the system comes together would probably be to recommmend you go to knifekits.com and get you a nice kit knife folder to put together by Daryl Ralph. Then once you get the hang of it you can start making your own also. I wish I'd have had kit knives available when I started. Back then we had to make our own kit knives by taking apart an existing folder to copy each part best we could and try to do it ourselves. They were not always pretty. :D

STR
 
thanks str...i understand now....i'll take a better look at it and see what i have to work with.....can you email me a price range for that kiridashi mod that you did....my email is rhurley9@optonline.net i'd appreciate it.....i would have that to fall back on as an option if my blade couldn't be modified into a folder....i almost bought that same blade from jww.com the other day....that is a wicked folder you made.....ryan
 
Typically you need to know the thickness of your blade. Ok, lets say its .085 thick and you are using a paring knife blade as you want to do.

Now it could be thinner or thicker I'm just throwing out that number off the top of my head.

Ok your knife will have brass, titanium or stainless liners. Lets say it will be a titanium frame lock.

You need to first map out your shape. You will need a carbide drill to make a hole in hardened steel to the size of the pivot barrel or rod you plan to use if you are peening the pivot instead of a screw type.

Now you will need washers. Ok so lets say you picked a 3/16" barrel or rod and you need washers that will have a 3/16 center hole. You need to figure the thickness now of your washers. .010, .015, .020 or maybe super thin .005 it really doesn't matter so long as you add that into the thickness of the blade. Lets say you add the blade thickness and .010 on each side of the folder. Thats two washers each .010 thick of course. So now your pivot is .105 thickness.

So you will need a spacer in the rear of the folder within plus or minus .005 of that same thickness to make it all look and function as it should. Most knives have some variance. Some are starkly thinner at the rear and some are exact. Again I base a lot of what I do on the Reeves folders and his are about as close in tolerances as any I've examined. I'd try to get as close to the same measurement as you can front and rear.

Friction folder types would be best because I don't know that a liner lock will be the one to try for the first attempt.

STR
 
thanks for all the info str....i didn't want to try and make my own folder....i wanted to know if you would do something like this....sorry if i worded it wrong....i have alot of skill using knives just not building them.....when you say reeves knives....i would assume you are taking about chris reeves.....are they that well built....i have been reading alot about folders recently and they come highly praised.....can you add any thoughts about reeve's knives....i would assume you have seen a few in your travels......ryan
 
It is Chris Reeves I am talking about yes.

And don't get me wrong there are things about Reeves' knives that I don't care for. For one the large Sebenza is too big, and the small too small and neither have a choil allowing the index finger to get ahead of the pivot and closer to the point for detail work. In this regard I really like the Hinderer XM18 over the Sebenza. Reeves has thicker lock relief cut outs to bend or spring the lock than the XM18 but the 18 has some features like texturized G10 on the non lock side or thumb side for extracting the folder for use and the lock stabalizer.

Both makers are in my opinion the two top makers in supreme folders right now and Chris deservingly so since he is the one that started it all with the frame lock concept but that doesn't mean others are not also up there. I just like what I see in both of these makers knives in the modern one hand opening and closing type folders.

Speaking of Sebenzas though they are well thought out and engineered from the ground up. Chris goes extra steps like flat grinding precision tolerances into the ti sides so they measure the same or as close as you'll find in the industry. The closer you look at them the more you realize he has taken anal retentive to a new level with his attention to each specific detail. His locks typically have more surface area wear pattern on them after use than any other makers knives which basically says to me he is not just accepting that there is contact and no blade play, he wants a very specific amount of contact with enough meat in there for metal to metal contact to insure it wears in slowly as it should and not too fast. Its something I try to do but I don't kid myself. I doubt I'm getting quite as close but sometimes I probably do.

Its very hard to explain some of the specifics I see in my own close exams of these folders. The bottom line is that his folder is in my opinion the best engineered one on the market for a 'production' folder and Hinderer would be my current choice for custom I think but I have not seen but three of his knives to date. If however he is as consistant as these three have been that I've handled he is really doing a lot better than some of the other makers I've handled knives from including Strider, and Emerson and all the other greats that make that kind of folder. Again though this is simply my opinion and nothing more. You are certainly entitled to feel differently.

STR
 
Oh, and Ryan I'll be happy to look at the knife you mention but pictures are a necessity for me to see what I need to see and also some digital caliper measurements of the thickness would help if possible.

Of course nothing beats a blade in hand though. ;)

Those typical frame lock conversions run $200 add $25 for a low rider clip and thats if you provide the knife to convert. Just FYI

STR
 
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