Well, @#$%^@...

Kalindras

Kalindras

Joined
Aug 24, 1999
Messages
933
Anybody out here in the Carrollton, TX area, that would be willing to give me few soldering lessons?

Gaaaaahhhh!!!! I'm terrible at this! I've read a number of books on it, but I've always had better luck picking up stuff when I see it done a few times...

Oh, and BTW, the issue that has, once again, hammered this home for me was this: Last night I was putting a brass guard on a nice Bowie blade with a stick-tang. Owing to my lack of skills, materials, and tools, I'm using premade parts, and doing the assembly--so the fit is something less than perfect (but it's a poor carpenter that blames the hammer, I know). Anyway, I wound up with the sloppiest joint I've ever seen, solder all over the brass, two burned fingers, and I destroyed the heat-treat, to boot, I think.

So, how do you guys do it? I try to practice as much as possible, but this one just seems to keep eluding me...

HELP!!! If I could just get this down, it'll be another hurdle overcome on my way to making knives I can be proud of. Thanks in advance!


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One little nuclear holocaust can REALLY hose your bowling average...
 
sorry i'm not antwhere near texas, but you should get heat stop from sheffield supply, it stops soldering from wrecking your heat treat, you can also put anti flux in the places where you don't want solder.
 
fitting and soldering guards is one of the hardest parts of knifemaking FOR ME. I have learned the following....
a. When drilling slot in guard measure tang thickness carefully and then use a slightly SMALLER drill. There is always a surprising amount of "run out." You can file a little more metal away, but not put it back.
b. Be careful as heck to enlarge the slot evenly, a little at a time. I have a tendency to end up with hour glass shaped slotsfrom working into the corners of slot. Turn guard around and over and work from all sides in turn. If your files do not have a smooth safe edge, then grind one, and make sure you are filing only at the intended spot.
C. use good solder. No-lead plumbers solder or lead/tin rosin core solder made for electronic work are best in my experience. The low temp solder that is mostly tin with a little silver does not flow nearly as well and the lows temp solders sold in small quanities by brand name are over priced.If lead content bothers you, then use the plumbers no-lead solder.
d. heat sink the blade by clamping several thin pieces of copper or brass to the bare blade, clamp hard, firm contact is needed.It OK too to wipe the heat sink with a wet rag if you get nervous after a while about heat build up. Properly heat sinked, you wont feel hurried to get the soldering done.
e. use plenty of flux and work from the tang side, tang up that is, with blade in vise. If the guard is fitted tight enough you will get a neat solder line.

I am getting better gradually at making and soldering guards. the only thing I can add is that with practice, it Does get better and easier.
 
The main thing I have learned is to clean it real good. Clean it with soap and water first then I use MEK. I clean it intill I am sure there is absolutely no chance of any dirt. Then when I am sure there is no chance of any dirt left I clean it a few more times. Just for good measure.

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-Greg Johnson
ICQ#4236341

 
Kalindras, what kind of flux and solder do you use?? I use silver solder that I buy at Ace Hardware.I also use their paste flux. I recently bought, but haven't yet used Staybrite Silver Solder from Jantz Supply, along with their liquid flux. Before I apply the flux, I clean both parts real good with alchohol. I let it air dry for a few minutes, then apply a liberal amount of paste flux to both pieces with a new acid brush. Be sure to stick the brush in the hole or slot and spin it around so the entire surface is covered. Before you start soldering, take a 1/16" piece of brass rod about 12" long, and sand one end down to a dull point. Then put the guard on the knife and clamp it in your vise, tang down. I made a special guard clamp to hold it in place, but I read here that someone uses old valve springs to hold it in position. Thats an excellent idea. Once you have everything positioned and secure, cut two pieces of solder just a tad longer than the joint between the guard and tang. Then lay them on the guard and push them against the blade. On a big knife, I even put two small pieces of solder at the top and bottom of the joint. Now you're ready for the heat. I use a regular propane torch. I aim the flame about 1 to 1 1/4" below the guard on the tang. This lets the heat move up to the guard through the tang. If you put the heat on the guard, it will get hot enough to melt the solder before the tang is hot enough for the solder to stick. I heat one side for a minute or so, and then move the flame to the other side of the tang. This makes sure the entire tang and guard gets hot enough. Once you move to the other side, watch the solder. You'll see it start to melt. When this happens, I move the flame back to the other side till the solder has melted almost completely. Then I put the torch down, on a level surface so it doesn't fall over. Then, while the solder is still liquid, take the 1/16" brass rod and run the pointed end through the solder a couple times. This takes any air bubbles out that may have developed. Then let the solder and blade cool. When it's cool enough, I take a clean rag and wipe off all the excess flux I can. Someone mentioned in another thread, that they soak the blade in a mixture that nutralizes the flux. You might want to try this, I plan to. I always have some solder on the guard and blade that I have to remove by first carefully scraping with a very sharp wood chisel, and then buffing. Hope this novel helps you. Lol! I didn't mean to write a book in response to your question, but this is how I silver solder my guards. Take care! Michael

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"Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!"
 
Kalindras,
Good ideas from all. Let me tell you how I do it. Most of my guards are 416 stainless.

I solder with the tang down, in the vise. The heat sink paste works so use it if you are concerned about the heat.

Clean the blade and guard with hot soapy water and/or a good solvent to remove oil and grit.

Heat the underside up some and using an acid brush, put plenty of flux around the joint. Keep heating it up and adding flux until the joint area turns a burnt looking brown. Keep the heat under the guard during this step. When the solder is evenly brown touch the solder to it. If it melts and runs, it's hot enough. Add more solder around the joint, as needed. It should flow down into the joint if it was fluxed right. Use the acid brush to brush off excess solder, but not too much.

A trick I learned years ago is to use an Exacto knife with the # 11 blade and use it like a little soldering iron. You can "tin" (flux the #11 blade) and use it to lead the solder where you want it to go, even up the blade.

As it cools down, brush a little more flux on it. Makes it easier to wash up later.

After it cools completely I wash it with soap and water with a stiff brush and soak the whole joint with baking soda to neutralize the acid.

To remove any excess solder on the front of the guard I use a sisal buffing wheel and black compound. On the back side I use a brass chisel so the edges stay flat. Takes the excess off fine. Again, most of mine are 416 stainless and will be ceramic bead blasted afterwards.

I've been using solder and flux from Sheffield Knifemakers Supply for many years and it works best for me.

Keep plenty of acid brushes on hand. Never use a dirty or used one, it'll contaminate the joint every time.

Hope you can follow this and it helps.
 
Many thanks for all of the tips, guys! It looks like it's just a case of 'practice makes perfect...'

I'll keep at, and see if I can get some pictures of pieces I'm working on for you guys to look and critique my work on.

Oh, and one other, brief question: Steel blade...brass guard...am I to assume that you're supposed to solder the guard neatly enough that you don't wind up with solder all over it? Or should I be using some brass-colored solder? Quit laughing...I've seen sillier products, and I didn't know if such a thing actually existed...I've noticed guys here, and out at Bob Engnath's site talking about using various implements of destruction to 'peel' or scrape solder away, but I didn't know if that was supposed to just be for little spots, or what...I have rather a lot to get off, and I'm thinning the brass considerably as I file and sand it off. Just wanted to check on that one.

Thanks again for the tips and hints, and if anybody's ever in the Carrollton (North Dallas) area, drop me an email, and we'll tip a cold one, if life isn't getting in the way of all the other stuff I do!



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One little nuclear holocaust can REALLY hose your bowling average...
 
Tom,
In my shop, a fluxed acid brush is a grit and dirt magnet. Meant it more like don't leave the brushes laying around. That's when they get contaminated.
I use them for everything and buy them by the box. For a couple of pennies each, I just prefer to throw them away after I use them.
 
Good advice all around, and Tom, I always use a new brush too as I have had problems with contamination, but then you should see my shop, I call it the Boars Nest for good reason! I have also found that flux can get old and not work well, buy small bottles of flux to avoid that problem. The heat paste does work well, but I am cheap so I cut a long narrow strip from a t-shirt rag, soak in water and wrap around the blade, sponge on more water if nesesarry.

Kit, I got to try the exacto knife, good one.

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www.simonichknives.com
 
Kit, have you ever tried using muratic acid as flux? I have a book that shows, I believe it was Blackie Collins using it and applying it as you described, to the heated joint.
Kalindras, give Kit's method a try(I sure am). He's been at it alot longer than I have, and I usually end up with alot of excess solder to remove. What you want to end up with, after the knife is finished, is a nice dished out bead of solder that blends from the blade to the guard.<img src=http://members.aol.com/l6steel/ebay/solder.jpg>
Heres a picture of one of my bowies. The light distorts it some. The solder doesn't go up the guard quite that much.
Oh yeah, as far as whether to use a new brush or not, I figure its tough enough to get a good solder joint, especially with stainless steel, so I want every edge I can get!!!! Take care ! Michael

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"Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!"


[This message has been edited by L6STEEL (edited 02 December 1999).]

[This message has been edited by L6STEEL (edited 02 December 1999).]

[This message has been edited by L6STEEL (edited 02 December 1999).]
 
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