Welt lock with Paul Long inspired front

[Robber58]

I have always admired Paul's amazing blade sheaths with inlays and overlays and exceptional tooling and design. I finally got the courage to try one for one of my welt lock sheaths for a camp knife I just finished. The inlay is beaver tail and the rest is just various layers of leather (except for the carbon fiber lock bar). After completing it, I admire Paul even more. It is not easy to pull off well and the welt lock adds a number of challenges of its own. It is far from perfect but my customer loves it and I am reasonably pleased. Don't ever be afraid to try something new.

Randy

 

[Roamad]

A real beauty. Would love to get a detail pic of the lock bar setup if you have time.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sheathmaker]

Randy, that is just pure neat! I really admire your welt lock. It is really an innovative idea.

Paul

 

[Horsewright]

Very nice work on the sheath! Late to the party tell us bout your welt lock.

 

[Robber58]

Thank you Paul. You really do inspire me to push myself.

Dave and Roamad, the welt lock is something I came up with a few years ago to get the retention strap out of harms way. It is simply a pivoted bar that is fitted to the guard and holds the knife in very securely when the strap is snapped in place. I don't have an interior picture of this new sheath but I have attached one for a Busse I made for a friend. I think the picture explains it better than I can. It does have limitations as it only works with blades that have guards that extend beyond the edge. That said, most of my knives fit that description.

It can be a bit of a challenge to make and does require some careful patterning and fitting for everything to come together. I have made enough now that it doesn't take much longer than a regular sheath unless I do what I did above.

Randy

 

[Horsewright]

Ah ha very clever. Great idea.

 

[Roamad]

Thanks Randy for the pix and further explanation. Looks like a great retention fix. Couple questions:

-- Is the lock bar spring loaded? If not, is the leather strap the only thing holding tension against the knife guard?
-- How is the lock bar attached to the sheath? Is that a Chicago screw?

And finally: Would you be offended if I borrowed this design? I'm making a knife for a whitewater guide. He wants it to mount inverted on his PFD and I've been hunting for a solid retention device that is also relatively simple to build with common tools yet allows the knife to be deployed quickly. Your design looks perfect! :thumbup:

 

[Robber58]

It is not spring loaded. That is a modified stainless Chicago screw. Be my guest using it.
Randy

 

[Roamad]

Thank you Randy!

 

[Lorien]

that's damn cool.

 

[hardingknives]

positive retention is a major deal in leather sheathes, always looking for something other than a strap THAT is a great idea, throw a clothes pin spring on it and bam! Fantastic

 

[Robber58]

I keep trying to understand why people seem to think it needs a spring. I can get a knife out of the sheath very fast with one basic move of my hand and thumb. To return and secure it takes a second at best.
If a spring was used for truly positive retention, it would have to be pretty darn strong and you would need some type of stop to keep the bar from riding on the blade edge and ending up in the sheath when the knife was removed. I have thought about this but really cannot find a good reason to add more complexity to a design that works quite well. If it is fitted correctly and you use a welt that adds blade friction it will work well. I have a customer that wore his knife upside down on his vest when he was in Afghanistan through some pretty tough situations. It held up well and he was very pleased with how it worked.

I guess to each his own. If someone wants to take this design and add a spring they can feel free to do so. I just don't think it is needed. If you need more that this, Kydex would probably be a better choice.

Randy

 

[Lorien]

if you need a spring, just wrap an elastic band around that sucker, (or you could build it in, hint hint...)

 

[sheathmaker]

My opinion of the system is "if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it"! It functions perfectly as originally designed, is relatively simple to construct and assemble, and does not require a solid and RIDGID base to support it as a spring would require, not to mention the additional bulk which would adversely affect aesthetics of the sheath.

You did good, Robber.

Paul

 

[Robber58]

Thanks Paul. Your support is greatly appreciated. I don't object to the comments: I just don't really understand them.
Randy

 

[hardingknives]

I keep trying to understand why people seem to think it needs a spring. I can get a knife out of the sheath very fast with one basic move of my hand and thumb. To return and secure it takes a second at best.
If a spring was used for truly positive retention, it would have to be pretty darn strong and you would need some type of stop to keep the bar from riding on the blade edge and ending up in the sheath when the knife was removed. I have thought about this but really cannot find a good reason to add more complexity to a design that works quite well. If it is fitted correctly and you use a welt that adds blade friction it will work well. I have a customer that wore his knife upside down on his vest when he was in Afghanistan through some pretty tough situations. It held up well and he was very pleased with how it worked.

I guess to each his own. If someone wants to take this design and add a spring they can feel free to do so. I just don't think it is needed. If you need more that this, Kydex would probably be a better choice.

Randy

To add the spring would eliminate the strap

 

[sheathmaker]

Chad, how would you install the spring? If the spring pressure caused it to open, it would remain open without a strap or some more involved locking device. If the spring caused it to stay closed then the cam action of removing the knife might suffice for extraction, but since the spring would be force it into the closed position, how about reinsertion??

Also, for me, the consideration of not adding a lot more bulk to the sheath would be very important.

You may be on the cusp of a great idea, but I could use some more detailed clarification.

Paul

 

[hardingknives]

Paul, I don't have the answers, but I think what he has here is a great concept,a concept that could be taken farther. I was thinking like a small clothespin type spring similar to what some of the assist-open knives have, that could be pinned within the welt. Creating a neutral pressure for for the spring is the kicker maybe a click retention of sorts, like I said, I don't have the answers, but this is a great starting point

 

[Roamad]

The more I think about it, the more I like this design as-is.

A spring would add complication, potentially rust or get gummed up, and would be difficult to keep clean and lubricated.

I thought about an elastic strap, or maybe shock cord, in place of the leather strap & snap. But as we all know, elastic stops being "stretchy" at some point and must be replaced. And because it is inherently flexible, it raises the possibility that the knife could come out of its own accord, such as with a sharp impact or drop.

In Randy's design, the leather strap keeps the lock bar from opening until you want it to. Yet the strap itself is always clear of the cutting edge, which is the problem with most such keeper straps. And there's no stretch, or very little, in the mechanism. There's nothing to rust. The lock bar only moves when forced to by the blade itself, and its range of motion is limited by the sheath. It could get gunked up and dirty, but maintenance is easy and no lubrication is required.

 

[sheathmaker]

The more I think about it, the more I like this design as-is.

A spring would add complication, potentially rust or get gummed up, and would be difficult to keep clean and lubricated.

I thought about an elastic strap, or maybe shock cord, in place of the leather strap & snap. But as we all know, elastic stops being "stretchy" at some point and must be replaced. And because it is inherently flexible, it raises the possibility that the knife could come out of its own accord, such as with a sharp impact or drop.

In Randy's design, the leather strap keeps the lock bar from opening until you want it to. Yet the strap itself is always clear of the cutting edge, which is the problem with most such keeper straps. And there's no stretch, or very little, in the mechanism. There's nothing to rust. The lock bar only moves when forced to by the blade itself, and its range of motion is limited by the sheath. It could get gunked up and dirty, but maintenance is easy and no lubrication is required.

Bingo! You got it! Nice analysis

Paul