Western Bowie project

E

ElKabong

Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
135
We had a yard sale today, a friend stopped by who is always out horse trading

He had an old bowie that I bought for $20
Looking at old threads here, it's most likely early 70's no markings on blade, just on the guard, boulder CO address W49 model


It's got plenty of patina, but the blade appears unused
The spots aren't past the surface, blade feels smooth to the touch, no pitting

I think I may strip it down and force a nice even patina on it , or does the collective say leave it alone?

1400969941.3906.iPicit.jpg
 
I'd say go ahead and make it your own. It's a great knife, but it isn't likely to make much difference to your retirement income whether you modify it or not.
 
You may want to check the sold listings for the western W49 model and Not do anything but oil the blade with light mineral oil. It's worth a lot more than 20 bucks.

Regards

Robin
 
If it was NIB I would suggest that you leave it. As is with the damaged grip and oxidation go ahead and use it for the true work horse that it is!

Enjoy and have fun!
 
The grip is beveled on both sides like that
Finish looks untouched on the scales
I assumed it was factory
Could that have changed
On later knives?
 
ElKabong said:
The grip is beveled on both sides like that
Finish looks untouched on the scales
I assumed it was factory
Could that have changed
On later knives?
Click to expand...

I am not a expert on Western, I do know that they are some of the best hard use knives every made in the USA and owned several in my Teen's & twenties when they were still made. The picture looks like a different finish on that bevel on the wood you are referring to or is that just the lighting?

The three Model 49 Westerns I have Had, bought & sold had a larger drop or Beak on the Birds head handle. I don't think there were different handle deviations on the 49, but as I said I don't claim to be a expert and know every model and deviation of them. Do some more research if you like. For your 20 bucks you could make such a great working knife out of it. Legend has it that that steel was copied for the original carbon, Cold steel trail master etc.
 
P.S.
I suggest that before you do any mods to that knife, you take it out and use for a extended time, several times to see what you like and if you really want to trim the guard etc??
 
IMHO, Your knife is what I call the 4th variation of the W49 production. IMHO, I believe this knife was made no earlier than 1968 and no later than 1972. Most likely this production with your specific guard markings and handle type was only made for a couple of years at most during that time frame.
Laurence is correct in his observation about the profile of the wood handle being different than other W49's with the early handle style using the smaller solid brass pins to hold it to the tang. However you are also correct in your opinion that it is original to the knife. All the examples of this variation of the W49 that I've either personally owned or have examined have this, (what I call), flat slab side profile to the wood handle. The next variation I see in the W49 is the same guard markings as your knife but with the later style handle attached with 3 cutlery rivets instead of the solid brass pins.

I agree with the above that even in it's present condition you could expect to get much more for this knife than the $20 you payed for it. Also it's just as true that it is your knife to do with as you like.
 
Great buy for $20. As a person with a love of the W49, I say clean up the blade and leave the hand guard alone. Thought I would leave a picture of my W49 with a couple smaller friends.

 
edbeau said:
Great buy for $20. As a person with a love of the W49, I say clean up the blade and leave the hand guard alone. Thought I would leave a picture of my W49 with a couple smaller friends.

Click to expand...

Those are what my three 49's looked like with the bigger beak on the bird's head and the Western stamp in the blade.
I always like the full guard for splitting and chopping 2 -4 inch branches for firewood.
 
You have what appears to be an original Western Bowie made in the late sixties or early seventies. The rosewood scales and small pins suggest the earlier date. Here is some info collected on the net and so may not be entirely accurate:

The earliest Western Bowie will be marked on the blade : "Western Boulder, Colo. USA" (on one side) and "Bowie" on the other side.
Next one will be marked "Western Bowie USA" (on one side of the blade). these are definately Vietnam era.
Next you will find: "Western Boulder Colo USA" (on guard, one side) then "Bowie" (on other side of guard). Next one "Western USA" (on guard) and "W49" (on guard).
After 1977 they will be blade marked again and have a letter under the Western logo. The early Vietnam knives have three small pins holding the handle on later ones have three large rivits. Vietnam sheaths should not have rings only the belt loop. Charlie

1. I do not have information specific information for dating the Western model #W49 Bowie knife but I have observed certain features that can date this knife.
Early models are stamped on the guard.
The sheath is either a one piece design or the "Swing" sheath that was
introduced in 1968.
Bowies made 1977 or later (through the early 1990's) may have a letter
stamped on the blade indicating the date of manufacture-A=1977,
B=1978, C=1979, etc.
Camillus acquired the Western brand in 1991 and these Bowie knives are
stamped "WW49" (W=Western and W=wood handle). This stamping is still
in use.

Camillus received some Western Cutlery Co. information in 1991 and I have read everything and there is nothing about dating the model #W49 Bowie knife.

I hope this information is helpful.

Tom Williams

1. Western started making the W49 in 1964. In 1977 Western started the practice of adding a date code to most of the knives they produced. That practice continued after the Platt family sold the company to Coleman in 1984 thru to 1991 when Camillus bought the rights to Western at auction. I've identified at least 6 variations and I think there may be a 7th between the years 1964 and 1977. The first two variations in the W49 were marked on the blade and they didn't include the stock code (W49) but did have the name Bowie on them. In Western's 1968 catalog they say that all of their fixed blade knives are marked on the guard with the stock number of the knife. I have fairly good evidence that the W49 of the 2nd version, (blade marked on the name side of the blade only with WESTERN/BOWIE/U.S.A., in 3 lines), was still the knife being produced in 1967. IMHO, contrary to what the catalog states, I believe the first guard marked W49 had BOWIE stamped on the pile side of the guard rather than W49 when they made this change in 1968.
The markings on your knife appear on both (what I call), the 4th and fifth versions. These are the guard markings that were on the W49 when they changed from the original handle to the version in your pictures. This is why I identify it as version 5. I haven't found a precise record for the dates of each of these versions, but at this time IMHO I believe your knife is from around 1972. This is based mostly from correspondence with other owners and collectors and is still an opinion.

The WESTERN W-49 was chrome vanadium, it was closest to the steel known as 0170-6c, from Camillus, I have THE EXACT CHEMICAL RUNDOWN of a Western W-49, in my book KNIFE TALK 1 and KNIFE TALK 2 by Ed Fowler, he had some knives tested, including a W-49, Cold Steel (Trailmaster I think)"CARBON V steel", and the CARBON V is VERY close to 0170-6c, hence also close to the steel in the W-49. The famed CARBON V is a dead ringer for the 0170-6cA couple of things that CAMCO sent me from his collection of old Western documents. I especially like the piece from the 82 Airborne/Special Forces news letter dated 1964. This is the first year that Western made the W49 BOWIE. Guess it was making an impression right away.
1. This is my understanding for the markings.

Blade marked WESTERN / BOULDER, COLO. / USA on one side and BOWIE on the other is 1964-1966.

Blade marked WESTERN / BOWIE / USA is 1966-1974.

Guard marked WESTERN BOULDER / COLO. USA on one side and BOWIE on the other is 1974-1977.

Guard marked WESTERN / USA on one side and W49 on the other is 1977-?

Blade marked WESTERN / USA / W49 on one side and date mark A thru ? On the other.


Bill
2. the letter code goes A - O, and stops 1990 - 91 when Camillus bought the brand.
 
It not much use me coming in and saying "I think Barry is right about the age of the knife" - as he is - the smaller pinned handle being the first indicator - but oh boy I learnt a few extra things about the Western Bowies and the differences - thank you Barry.
I have owned hundreds of Bowies and fixed blades -and many western Bowies - I shudder to think what may have passed through my hands in the earlier days :(
 
Nice find and an interesting thread :thumbup:
 
Here's a shot of the scales
If it isn't factory , looks like a good job
139317CE-7412-43AF-AFE9-C054F3CF0F2C_zpskglmseze.jpg


Here are the guard markings , does that nail the year down?


69D44A21-188B-4927-AC1A-A278D96FD78C_zpsv089ywc1.jpg


02243653-4CF0-4AA8-90DD-DA4974EBF958_zpsz4rmwtlf.jpg
 
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My mid/late 90's W49 had a straight guard. It was bought from SMKW...if I can find and get to the blade and guard I will shoot a pic this week.
 
Great thread! -I just got my first W 49 last week end!, a 1990's made one, I think-really like it- did not have a a sheath though- could anyone recomend a source or vendor for a W49 sheath?.Thanks!
 
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