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Western vs Asian - Why are Asian style blades comparatively cheaply made?

E

EpicHam

Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
73
After spending a few days on the net looking at various swords and knives.
I realized something.
99% of the "tacticool" swords and knives are honestly.. while they are quite "cheap" , they are also REALLY cheaply made
Take the United Cutlery's Black Ronin Ninja sword for example.
UC1184.JPG

$22
It doesn't even state what kind of steel is used.
From some customer's review I heard its 420J2... which is basically liner steel. Icky stuff with awful retention and hardness.
What kind of tang is it?
Its "handmade".


Whetstone Cutlery also has one of this stuff.
51xiEcuJHrL._SL1500_.jpg

$18.15
Also , no idea what its made of beside from... "stainless steel" .


But then as we move onto other western swords/machete/knives
E.g:
The Cold Steel Kopis Machete
kopis-machete-large.jpg

Da hell?
Its 1055 steel!
And its FULL TANG!
$28.95

Gerber's Gator machete.
GB31000758.jpg

"High carbon steel" , got a feeling Gerber is hiding something.
FULL TANG
$18


This pattern keeps on repeating itself .
For the same price you can get for a cheap Japanese sword knife machete like object or you can get a well described and high quality western blade.
Why is that?
Surely if they can make a kopis using 1055 steel at that price range , they can surely make a ninja sword using the same material . Right?
:confused:
 
Last edited:
They're not Asian, I believe they prefer the term "orientals". Anyway, those are cheap Chinese crap made in sweat shops from pot metal. They are cheap for a reason, they are not intended for hard or serious use, more geared toward 12 year olds. (Wait, what?)

"EpicHam" is an epic name:thumbup:
 
Not sure you're gonna get anywhere with this one bud...They're all super cheap knives meant more for show than they are for go...
 
EpicHam said:
Even the Kopis and the Machete?????
Click to expand...

Cold Steel machetes are made by Lasher Tools in South Africa.

Locally in South Africa we are flooded by these cheap imports and has caused our small local knife industry some serious harm. At the end. You get what you pay for.

If you want a fake piece Samurai sword then buy the cheap crap. There are places you can buy authentic with paperwork however that is going to cost you.

So it does not matter if it is North, East, South, West, there are good makers and bad makers. You have to chose what you support and spend you money on.
 
Because those are not designed for actual use... they are designed to sell to teenagers.
 
The Kopis isn't a western design... The Gator is a latin style machete, also not technically western.


Oh, and you left out a few... Cold Steel Katana Machete. Loosely based on Japanese (Asian) designs, yet it's the same price as the rest here and makes a serviceable machete once sharpened properly. Cold Steel Kukri Machete. Loosely based on the Khukuri, another Asian design. Makes a great cheap lightweight chopper.
 
marthinus said:
So it does not matter if it is North, East, South, West, there are good makers and bad makers. You have to chose what you support and spend you money on.
Click to expand...

:thumbup::thumbup:

Quoted for truth. Every country turns out their own share of product (not just knives) that is good and bad. Always has and always will be that way.

Robert
 
rajincagin said:
They're not Asian, I believe they prefer the term "orientals".
Click to expand...

Got that backwards. Oriental was the old version. Modern usage prefers Asian.

Grease said:
The Kopis isn't a western design... The Gator is a latin style machete, also not technically western.
Click to expand...

The kopis is a Greek design, which is classically western civilization. Latin style also may not be John Wayne western, or medieval European, but is also a classic of western civilization.
 
What are you guy's take on the Musashi line up of najinatas and katanas?
$80 for a 1055 differentially hardened katana. Too good to be TRUE?
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Got that backwards. Oriental was the old version. Modern usage prefers Asian.
Click to expand...

I think he forgot to close his sarcasm tag.

EpicHam said:
What are you guy's take on the Musashi line up of najinatas and katanas?
$80 for a 1055 differentially hardened katana. Too good to be TRUE?
Click to expand...

1055 is a pretty cheap steel, but it does make a decent sword. Don't go expecting epic levels of slicytude, but it will be serviceable sword. It is mass produced, after all. For anything decent, expect to pay a minimum of $400+. I am looking for a sword in 3V steel, and most of the custom makers are looking for $1500+.
 
On tapatalk atm so can't quote. Yeah its not as tough as 1095 or CPM stuff but I heard if you go too high in the RHC scale , the shear force may shatter the blade. It IS 30+ inches after all.. Right?
 
The cheaply made knives come mostly from China. Can't find any solid info on materials? That's because the American "manufacturer" (who doesn't manufacture anything - strictly a marketing company) might not even specify a particular grade of steel when contracting with a Chinese factory to build their product. That same factory might make the same knife under three or four different brand names, all with vague specs and priced based on what logo appears on the blade. The QC might be better for one brand than another, and one may accurately identify the type of steel used, but that will cost you extra. For instance, take a look at knives from Boker's Magnum line, and see how many identical knives you can find being sold under other brand names. Some will cost a little more with a Smith & Wesson logo, a little less with an MTech logo, and a LOT less with no logo at all. Compare the website/catalog lineups from BudK, Kennesaw and Smokey Mountain Knife Works. Anything with "Special Forces" or "EMT" or "POLICE" on the blade, while you're at it. These things are made using the cheapest Chinese labor available, often in factory-cities where your steel, handle material, rivets and screws are all made across the street from each other. Ever wonder why so many Chinese knives use "alphabet soup" grades of steel instead of verifiable 440C, VG10, S30V or other common types, while a short distance away in Taiwan you'll find more familiar, better steel being used? Because it's a lot cheaper to use what's produced right there in-country, again with cheap labor and cheap transportation.

I have some Chinese knives that I really like, including most of my small but growing EDC rotation and the various hardware store folders I use around the house. Some, like my cheap Kershaws, are every bit as nice looking and functional as their American counterparts. However, that's as much about Kershaw's production requirements and QC as anything. They might use a lesser grade of steel, especially based on the specs of some of their new 2014 models, but you can bet that someone at their Chinese factory has to be able to confirm that grade of steel . . . not use some mystery crap,
 
They are capable of making anything from OUR specifications. American companies want to hit certain pricepoints and thats what you get. They say they make the best shoes in Italy, well it better be at those prices...
 
marthinus said:
Cold Steel machetes are made by Lasher Tools in South Africa.

Locally in South Africa we are flooded by these cheap imports and has caused our small local knife industry some serious harm. At the end. You get what you pay for.

If you want a fake piece Samurai sword then buy the cheap crap. There are places you can buy authentic with paperwork however that is going to cost you.

So it does not matter if it is North, East, South, West, there are good makers and bad makers. You have to chose what you support and spend you money on.
Click to expand...

:thumbup: Very true. It doesn't matter WHERE it's made (although most garbage is made in China/Pakistan/etc.) as much as who made it.

Take Kershaw for example. Great quality knives, very good prices, and made....in China! (Yes, I know that they have USA knives too.)

Now look at Smith and Wesson, MTech, etc. They are known to make nothing but garbage for mall ninjas, and they, like some Kershaws, are made in China.

Before long, we could say that all Chinese and Taiwanese knives are garbage. But what about Taiwanese Spydercos like the Gayle Bradley.
 
Actually the Cold Steel offerings are extremely good for the money. I got a Magmum Khukuri machete years before owning my HI and it has served me quite well.
 
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