Whaddya think of this welder??

happycat

happycat

Joined
Jun 21, 1999
Messages
752
Hi all. I am getting ready to buy my first welder. I am primarily interested in tacking together billets to make damascus. Got a press last summer. Haven't used it much cause I couldn't tack billets and weld handles on them.
Anyway, its in the Northen tool & Equip catalog (pg 243 top right). Its a Clarke 130 en 130 amp wire feed welder. Welding range 28-130 amps, uses wire diameter .023, .030, or 035. Duty cycle 30% @ 90 amps. Includes 7' cable, 5' 10" ground clamp cable, 2 lb roll of .035 flux core wire. Also includes conversion kit, cart, replacement tips, wire brush, hammer, 2 spools of wire and instructional video, and a helmet. The price is 399.00. Says it welds up to 3/16ths. Is that heavy duty enough?
They also have a Hobart 140 amp MIG with a 20% duty cycle @90 amps for 479.00 and that has free shipping. I thought the other was free shipping too, but just realized it isn't. Would I be better off going with the Hobart? It supposedly goes up to 1/4".
I don't know jack about welding, but my friend J has offered to teach me. I would consult him on this, but by the time he gets back from the blade show the household or some other nefarious neccessity will have gobbled up my welder stash, so time is of the essence!
Any advice is appreciated,
Thanks!
Ed
 
I don't know anything about the quality of clarke welders. The higher duty cycle is a good thing though, and it sounds like a pretty nice set up for the price. It should definitely work for tacking billets together, and ought to do handles just fine.
I'd have to say that for just prepping damascus billets you'd get along real well with a stick welder. A lincoln AC 225 would be a hundred bucks less and will run forever. You could probably find one locally too and save on shipping. Just a thought, don't know if you've got other things to do on a occasion that would call for a wire feed or not.

Also, for welding handles on and tacking things together quick....I think a stick welder is easier. I hardly ever clamp things up if I'm stick welding, just hold the peice with one hand and tack it with the other. With my limited experince with a wire feed I wasn't able to do that very well. It was difficult for me to manipulate the gun with one hand and get things tacked in the right place.
Hopefully someone that actually makes damascus will chime in though and offer some better advice :footinmou :D
 
I would not be too hasty on making a decision. I welded for many, many years for a living and literally spent thousands of hours welding. I personally would get a small buzz box stick welder. As long as you are willing to burn the rod, you can weld just about any thickness. You will not be happy in the long run with a welder that has 3/16" limitaion. Who knows you might want to built a trailer hitch, etc or repair something that is heavy duty, and the stick will handle just about anything you want to tackle.You would be best to go to a local welding supply house and let them explain the different aspects of the machines. I do not know how the newer model mig machines are, but the older ones could be a pain on the wire feed problems, especially for a novice welder. I would stay with the welding machines that built this country, Lincoln, Miller, Hobart etc. you get what you pay for.
Since you are not doing critical welds and only tacking material together the learning period will be fairly easy for you. Stick with a 3/32 7018 rod to begin with and set your machine to around 80. If your vision is not too great, inquire about putting a set of cheaters in your hood to help with maginifaction when welding. Get a hood and watch a good welder, your learning curve will be much shorter. Just my .02 cents worth.
If your buddy has a mig machine, you may be happier with it.
Good Luck!
Jon
 
I gotta disagree on the type of rod, just to be cantankerous I guess, since we don't even know what kind of welder your getting.
I really like how 7018 welds, and you can use it for just about anything. The problem is its a major pain in the ass to store. It won't weld for **** if its not absolutely dry, and when I say dry I mean most production shops store it in an oven!
6013 and 6011 should weld anything most people want. 7018 is for low hydrogen, but hydrogen embrittlement shouldn't be an issue for tacking billets together, or general fabricating. They also store easily as they're supposed to have a little moisture in the flux so you can keep them in a tin on the shelf and not worry about it. 6013 will run a pretty bead, but if you can get the hang of 6011 you'll be good with any of them.
 
I learned this when I was a young welder, long, long ago. Get a junk refrigerator, preferably one sized for the amount of rod you want to store. Strip out the compressor to make it movable. Drill a whole in one of the upper corners to feed in an electrical wire. Surface mount a light bulb socket and connect the wires, then put in a 100w bulb. Voila! Instant heat and moisture control. Most of the shops I worked in or visited used this method to store all of their rod, including 7018 and 7024. It was cheaper and easier than using ovens.
 
I used to own a Hobart wire feed like the one you list and it is a Cadillac machine for a wire feed welder.
 
Any welding rod must be stored in a dry source, and the refrigerator idea mentioned on the previous post is excellent for home,small shops etc. Without proper storage for the welding rod, it is like running an engine on watery gas.
6010,11 etc. rod (bad splatter with these also) only advantage over 7018 is that you can run it up hill or down when running stringers in pipe etc. whereas 7018 can not be run downhill.
I have welded out many 6" inch thick x-ray High Pressure main steam lines on Nuclear plants using Tig for root pass and several days welding with 7018 the rest of the way out. The 60 series rods are not even allowed on the these critical jobs.
Just about any rod is fine for home or shop tacking material, just a matter of personal preference. Just my .02 cents.
Good Luck and Fire in The Hole!
 
Maybe one of you gents could do me (and individuals like happycat) a huge favor and write up a primer, unless of course there is one and we missed it, on welders. I have no welding experience myself, and other then J Neilson's advice, I'm guessing my way thru trying to buy one. I see hundreds of used welders at the fleamarkets, and may very well have passed up a great one, just don't know any better. The one bit that J pointed out was the low duty cycles of most newer welders. What would be a good all around starter? Something for damascus, general shop usage, repairs, welding up jigs/etc for a new maker? Would be very appreciated -MJ
 
Satchmo said:
Any welding rod must be stored in a dry source........

I have welded out many 6" inch thick x-ray High Pressure main steam lines on Nuclear plants using Tig for root pass and several days welding with 7018 the rest of the way out. The 60 series rods are not even allowed on the these critical jobs......


Good Luck and Fire in The Hole!
Click to expand...

Your right on dry storage, I can't argue that but from my experience 6011 and 6013 aren't nearly as tempermental. You can store them in a sealed tube and be good for years, even here where the humidity gets so high in summer. 7018 won't even weld until you've had it in an oven, too wet just from being kept in a tube at the store. I'm looking to set something up like the refrigerator method myself, but for the average guy who just wants to tack something together, or do odd jobs around the shop its not even close to being worth the hassle.

As far as 60 series rod on the high pressure steam lines, thats because the specs either called for low hydrogen, or ultimate tensile strength over 60,000 psi. If your working with a material or situation where hydrogen embrittlement is going to be a problem, or you need higher tensile strength then your obviously not going to be able to use 60 series rod. All rod is code quality, the type you use just depends on the job your doing.




One tip for anyone looking to buy a stick welder, is you need to learn what the number system for electrodes mean. Here's a basic rundown.
You have 4 digits-
The first two tell you the ultimate tensile strength of the core wire in 1000 psi. So 60 series has 60,000 psi and 70 series has 70,000 psi ultimate tensile strength.

The 3rd digit tells you the position the rod is meant to be used in.
1-all positions, flat horizontal, vertical, overhead, you can use it for any of them.
2-flat only (this stuff will run all over if you try and do anything else with it)

The 4th digit tells you the type of coating, which is improtant because it tells you what you can weld with it, and the type of transfer it will be. Digits go 1 through 9, but I'll only go over the common ones since I don't have any notes with me right now.
1- this is a spray transfer rod. It offers very good penetration and will run at lower amperage. Its not the best choice for thin material, or poorly fit joints. It also leaves a very large amount of spatter. This is a good choice for thick steel though.
3- this is a globular transfer. Offers less penetration, but lays a heavier bead. Also has reduced spatter from the spray transfer. you can run a very clean pretty bead with this stuff. You have to watch what your doing though as penetration isn't as deep.
4- This is a high iron content coating. It deposits a lot more filler for the given rod size.
8- This is a low hydrogen coating. Used in a lot of "code" applications, because hydrogen embrittlement can be a very serious problem with some materials.

So if you know that stuff, you can look at 6013 and know right off the bat that its core wire has a UTS of 60,000 psi, and its an all position globular transfer electrod.
7018 has a core wire with a UTS of 70,000 psi and is a low hydrogen rod for all positions. Its also a globular transfer. I'm pretty sure that all coatings except for #1 are globular transfer.
7024 has a core wire with a UTS of 70,000 psi and is a high deposition rod meant to be used in the flat position. This is going to have a very large and fluid weld pool.

Hope that helps somebody :)
 
Matt
Sorry, I just don't see your point or where you are trying to take this. Of course different numbered rod is for different applications, that is welding 101. I can make a weld smooth as a cat's butt with bailing wire and and a torch and read your quoted rod specs from a book all day long. Welding has provided me with a good living for many years and I spent many years in an apprenticeship to learn this trade.
I am just saying 7018 is my preference, but by all means use 6010, bialing wire, gum, spit or anything else you prefer. I certainly was not trying to create a controversy with my opnion.
Keep your rod and your powder dry! (<:
Nuffsaid, I am out, no more for me on this subject.
Good Luck Happycat!

Jon
 
Thanks for all of the info guys. Satchmo I think Matt is just trying to help with info for those of us who haven't had welding 101. I don't think he ment anything insulting. Sounds like he just hasn't had much luck with 7018. My thanks to both of you for suggesting the idea of a stick welder. Cheap is good for me as I am trying to get a mini mill and a welder this weekend. I also like the idea of getting a more adaptable unit rather than one that has limitations. I liked the idea of a mig unit cause J was telling me that he could teach me how to use it quick. I tried using a stick welder many years ago and didn't do so well. Course, I've gotten a little better with my hands since then..
Matt, that Lincon 225 you mentioned, I just saw one in the local want ad digest for about 125.00. Does it run on regular house current or do I need 220 or some such?
Ed
 
Satchmo said:
Matt
Sorry, I just don't see your point or where you are trying to take this. Of course different numbered rod is for different applications, that is welding 101. I can make a weld smooth as a cat's butt with bailing wire and and a torch and read your quoted rod specs from a book all day long. Welding has provided me with a good living for many years and I spent many years in an apprenticeship to learn this trade.
I am just saying 7018 is my preference, but by all means use 6010, bialing wire, gum, spit or anything else you prefer. I certainly was not trying to create a controversy with my opnion.
Keep your rod and your powder dry! (<:
Nuffsaid, I am out, no more for me on this subject.
Good Luck Happycat!

Jon
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to start an argument. I'm just trying to get the point across that every electrode is made for a specific purpose. You might like 7018 and thats good for you, but its not necessary for everyone to go out and buy a rod saver oven or rig up a refrigerator so they can use the stuff. 6011 and 13 are cheaper, and will work just as well for the things they are intended for.
There's a lot of guys here who don't know anything about welding other than they'd like to learn. I don't want them to get the wrong idea about whats needed to get started, and I don't want them to go buy 10 lbs of 7018 and then give up on ever learning because they can't make it arc and don't know why. The truth is there is no best type of electrode. Each one has a purpose, and if your going to do very much welding your going to end up with some of each eventually.
 
happycat said:
Matt, that Lincon 225 you mentioned, I just saw one in the local want ad digest for about 125.00. Does it run on regular house current or do I need 220 or some such?
Ed
Click to expand...

It takes 220V, which is kind of a pain I suppose. Its handy to have 220V service in your shop anyhow though, since you can run bigger motors and stuff.
Detailed specs on the AC225 can be found here:
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.asp?p=2493
Power supply needed is listed under input range in the pdf file at the "more poduct info" link.
This is the welder I use here at home. I'm really happy with it. I've used it for everything from fixing farm equipment to making tools for the shop. I'd like to have a wire feed, and a TIG to play with too, but this does everything I NEED :D
 
IN ANSWER TO HAPPYCAT'S REAL QUESTION.Either will work for tacking up billets and welding on tangs.Go to the library and read a few books on welding (HF sells a book cheap,too).Many municipal Vo-Tech schools have a basic welding class that is a real good way to get your neck red (you won't appreciate that until you've welded a bit,and it has nothing to do with red-necks).You will also learn about different welding equipment/techniques at the class.
 
Thanks for the advice Stacy. I actually have a book around here somewhere.............My wife & I are both bookaholics, so finding it presents rather a problem. I didn't even think of the library until you mentioned it.
Ed
 
ED: I use a old Lincoln Tombstone welder AC/DC 220V I run a extension cord from my cellar to the smithy to power my press too. I pick it up for $100. It does fill the needs that I have in the smithy. I built my press and forges with it and can build just about anything else needed in the knife making arena. :D
 
I have a Lincoln 135P+ mig, and I run .030 wire with argon gas. I have welded 1/2" plate, stainless and aluminum with huge success, and anyone who has had any welding experience will surely agree that welding is 75% preparation. You can't just jam two chunks of steel together and think you can make 'em stick with a squirrely little mig welder - you have you make sure all your joints are properly cleaned, ground, and bevelled for a good solid fillet weld.

I'm just saying that I have used my little mig for years and a lot of little stuff, and although I have never welded professionally, I did attend school for it. I'll agree that on the big stuff, it does get tired, but it'll certainly do the job if "properly motivated"!

With these statements behind me, I'll just make the claim that I think a wire-feed welder, WITH GAS (very important) is the best all-around welder for the knifemaker. You can do almost anything with it, and it'll make nice and clean welds on your stub tangs ~AND~ damascus billets all day long.

:) :) :)
 
Thanks George and Higg. I looked at a Lincon 225 buzz box tonight at Home Depot. Only problem is im not wired for 220. Probably not a big deal for somebody who knows what they're doing to run a new line, but I don't and have a healthy respect for **** that can fry me and/or burn down my house. :eek:
Did buy a beginners welding book though. :D Gotta start somewhere......
Ed
 
happycat said:
Thanks George and Higg. I looked at a Lincon 225 buzz box tonight at Home Depot. Only problem is im not wired for 220. Probably not a big deal for somebody who knows what they're doing to run a new line, but I don't and have a healthy respect for **** that can fry me and/or burn down my house. :eek:
Did buy a beginners welding book though. :D Gotta start somewhere......
Ed
Click to expand...

A book is a good way to start. I think Miller and Lincoln also have some instructional materials on their sites. In my opinion, a welder of any kind is like a microwave oven... once you have one, you'll never want to be without it! ;)
 
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