Wharncliffe

I followed some link on Cliff's website and found myself on Ed Schott's site. He has a model named "Lord Wharncliffe's Mistress."

From my understanding, wharncliffe refers to that type of blade profile (like a reverse clip point or reverse tanto?). It's the blade type that I have not yet had in my collection.

Can anyone tell me more about wharncliffe blade? Is there any kind of job that this blade could have advantage over more traditional types. Drawbacks?

Any more info about Ed Schott would also be appreciated (Ex. delivery time). Just want to try 3v steel.

Thanks.
Dew.
 
fudo

fudo

Joined
Aug 27, 1999
Messages
4,531
The warncliffe blade is simply a variant of a Scramasax. Scramasax's have been around for about 1,000 years. The people who carried them and were associated with them were called Saxons. I have seen examples with blades from 6" to 32". They are a very good utility shape, with a point that can stab if necessary and a straight edge that a peasant with a rock can sharpen. It has all the strengths of a sheepsfoot blade with none of the weaknesses IMHO
 
Oregon Duck asked a similar question on Sept 25, 1999, but I cannot find the link through the Search engine. Anyhow, here is my reply to that thread, along w/two others... FYI

Glen


storyville Member
posted 25 September 1999 02:46 PM

Well, just about *any* blade design can perform *any* task to varying degrees. I don't like tantos, but I'm sure they'll do fine for paring apples and opening boxes. On the other end (more sobering and unfortunate), thin cheap-steel kitchen knives are used for defensive/offensive purposes far more often than all other knives combined, "tactical" or otherwise. Also, I remember, as a kid, gutting fish and skinning a rabbit w/a SAK.

That said, the Wharncliffe seems pretty nifty for daily tasks. Since the edge is aligned w/the bottom of the handle, as Lynn Griffith noted, the entire blade up to its point effectively pull-cuts/drags thru its object. (More like an inverted straight pt rather than drop pt, actually.) On drop pts and such, the tip consistently falls away from the material you’re pulling thru. Again, the “extra effort” it causes isn’t really noticeable, and certainly won’t cause carpal tunnel syndrome or something; so it probably comes down, as it does in many cases, to preference.

On Wharncliffes, thinner the blade, the better, IMO. Since the spine comes down to the edge rather than vice versa, you end up w/a low, very thin pointy tip. Which is why it is probably “the best” for pulling out splinters. You wouldn’t want to stab trees w/it; but it pierces boxes nicely, and is great for opening packages, mail, and such, as its tip can be easily slipped under tape/ paper/
cardboard and cut from below, w/o damaging contents by cutting open from above, etc.

Europeans seem to favor the design a little more. Klotzli (sp?) makes a true wharncliffe folder (w/partial serrations), but a good inexpensive folder is the AG Russell Featherweight. It has a modified Wharncliffe in that the edge has a very slight belly -- nice touch, IMO. Underrated pocket knife, only $35 or so.

Boy, I’m procrasting... My .02 -- Glen

______________________________
Lynn Grififth Knives Senior Member
posted 26 September 1999 01:27 PM

quote:
Which is why it is probably “the best” for pulling out splinters

Storyville, You are right about them being great for slivers. However there is one better for slivers. It is the "Sliver" on my website. It is not a standard model. It was designed for and ordered by JerryO a forum member. Take a look. Thanks,

Lynn Griffith-Tactical Knifemaker
Winner of "Best Tactical Knife" at 1999 PKA show
See my award winning "Spec Ops Tanto" in Gallery 3 of my website
GriffithKN@aol.com
Discounts to Police and Active Duty Military

______________________________
Corduroy Senior Member
posted 26 September 1999 01:47 PM

I see the Wharncliffe as a fine "gentleman's utility" blade style. This is because it emphasizes tasks that use the point, but has no belly for heavier cutting.

What tasks use the point? Aside from the splinter-picking and such already mentioned, a lot of drag-cutting of thin materials is accomplished with just the point and very last bit of edge. Imagine clipping coupons on a hard surface, or opening the tape on a package without damaging the contents. For knife with "belly," these tasks involve rotating the handle and wrist upwards in an
awkward manner; a Wharncliffe brings the point down and lessens this effect.

I don't agree that a straight-edge is best for pull cuts. It may be better than a curved edge, but a reverse curve or hawksbill is better still. I'm also loathe to give up the belly on a piece intended for thrusting - the belly increases the wound channel easily, much better, IMO, than the effect of the unsharpened curved spine of teh Wharncliffe forcing the edge down.

Basically, you want a curved belly and a "standard" shape for a lot of heavier knife tasks, from skinning to cutting thick cardboard (see "The Book of the Sword" for a simple explanation of the advantages of the curved edge). But for a gentlemanly knife that will be performing more light, point-oriented tasks, a Wharncliffe is a super choice.

-Drew Gleason
Little Bear Knives
 
It's similar to a long sheepfoot, a blade on my stockmans that I find very useful. It offers an easy way to generate a lot of pressure on a tip in a slicing motion, making it dandy for such things as opening packages as one can penetrate materials without using a stabbing motion. Some downsides are that it puts a lot of pressure on the tip often dulling it more quickly than the rest of the blade, and it isn't very good for stabbing :^)
 
and it isn't very good for stabbing :^)
Click to expand...
I don't recommend stabbing anyone. However, I think you must not be thinking of the same wharncliffe shape that I am. My "Sniper" tapers all the way to the point. I don't think any dagger could penetrate any faster. BTW, if you like wharncliffes, next week I will have a larger wharncliffe on my site.

------------------
Lynn Griffith
Available knives now listed on
My website
GriffithKN@aol.com

 
Are the wharncliffe blades sharpened on the spine too ? If not one is presenting the not-too-sharp spine of the blade to the object being stabbed, instead of a sharpened edge as on most conventional blade shapes.
 
No you're all wrong, it's the road I live on.
smile.gif


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KSwinamer
 
Thanks a lot for all responses! Sorry that I seemed to miss those previous discussions on the subject.

Donna, that's very interesting. I think I'm gonna contact Ed. His posted price $250.00 for that 9" 3v blade is affordable. These days I rarely see such a large custom knife under $300.

It would also be great to hear how a 3v sword performs when you get it.

Dew.


 
Donna,
could you describe the short sword you ordered? Is it going to be differentially heat treated? Also, I've never heared CPM3V mentioned as a "sword steel", mostly the simple carbon steels are recommended for swords. Do you think it is adequate for a sword blade (I don't know what CPM3V like in composition, even stainless or not)?
I'm asking all these questions because sometime in the near future I will probably be looking for a relatively inexpensive custom short sword blade, so I'm trying to gather all the info I come across.

Thanks.
Alex.
 
Dew,

There was an article in either Blade or Knives Illustrated regarding the history of the wharncliff blade. I believe it mentioned a Lord Wharncliff who had some input into the design. It's been a year or so ago.

------------------
Frank Norman
Valdosta, GA
 
Dew, the Wharncliff on Ed's web page was one he made for the forums, it was of O1 steel, the current ones that he is making are of CPM 3V but are not 1/4" nor are they 9" long for blade length, Ed told me he was going to have his Web master fix those dimensions, the knife would have an 8" blade and the thickness is around 3/16" but more than strong enough!

I like the Wharncliff pattern, been trying to sell the one I bought on an impulse buy at the Blade Show, a Stag Handled 4" bladed one with ATS-34 steel, flat ground, for me the blade is just a bit too long and the point gets in my way, if it were about 3" or less I'd like it much better. I called Mr. McDonald and he suggested that I grind the blade down to the length I like, but I really hate to muck up someone elses fine work, also I don't know if the dimensions of the rest of the knife would stay in line or just look funny. So if any of you would like a nice hand made wharncliff with stag handles, let me know.

If I could sell that one, I'd probably put an email to Lynn for a Sniper, those look to be about the blade length I'd like, but I'd ask him to not but the notch at the start of the edge, it tends to catch things when you start to cut stuff.

G2

------------------
My mind is made up,
So don't confuse me with the facts!

www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Cabin/7306/blades.html

Gillett PA

[This message has been edited by Gary W. Graley (edited 20 November 1999).]
 
Just thought I'd mention...in the new James Bond movie, he briefly uses a small, Wharncliffe-bladed pocketknife to alter an I.D.
Jim
 
Wharncliffes look like they'd be really good for daily tasks, but I just don't like the looks of them. I don't know what it is, but they don't appeal to me at all.
frown.gif


------------------
David Gardner
Vineland NJ

"If you fake the Funk, your nose will grow."
-W. Bootsy Collins


 
Gary,

According to the information provided by Ed, the 9" Wharncliffe Mistress has a sub-zero quenched blade made of 1/4" 01 starrett differentially hardened to 60/55 RC. To me it feels a little heavy for a fighter; but, it would make an excellent camp knife.

I never though about using a Wharcliff pattern as a camp knife before handling this knife; but, it now looks very practical to me. One of the concerns I always have when cutting vegitation with a more traditional bowie pattern is that the knife can bounce if you make contact with hard vegitation too far forward on the blade (i.e. on the belly near the point). But with this pattern the edge is absolutely flat, it can't bounce back at you, its very easy to sharpen, and the shape of the blade (an Arch) makes the point all that much more ridged. Oh, and yes the point is sharp enough to provide good penetration (well at least as good as you are likely to get from a 1/4" thick blade).

About the only negative I have found with the piece is with the sheath. Its made from quality 10-12oz leather and relatively bomb proof; but the pouch design for a knife this big makes the entire package very heavy. Then again, where weight is a real concern you probably wouldn't be carrying a nine inch long blade to begin with.

 
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